6 ms·

Can you explain why it is relevant that he's white?

octernion 6y ago
can you explain what research you have done in the racism in tech space? edit: i mean this in good faith since that question is an incredibly complicated one involving power dynamics and systemic issues that can't be boiled down to a simplistic answer. why the downvotes?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
ciarannolan 6y ago
No explanation necessary. It's the same old racism, but with a new 2020 twist: it's ok as long as it's racism against people we don't like. Check out the recent spate of black athletes and celebrities posting openly anti-Semitic comments on social media (one directly (mis)quoting Hitler re: Jews) with zero repercussions. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2020/07/08/stephen-jackson-defends-desean-jacksons-fake-adolf-hitler-quote-posts/5399430002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2020/07/08/stephen... https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/jewish-leaders-condemn-hurtful-words-nick-cannon-71810371 https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/jewish-leader... https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/hip-hop/9400472/ice-cube-criticized-anti-semitic-images-conspiracy-theories https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/hip-hop/9400472/i... A really thoughtful piece about this by Kareem Abdul Jabbar here too: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kareem-abdul-jabbar-is-outrage-anti-semitism-sports-hollywood-1303210 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kareem-abdul-jabbar-i...
- whymauri 6y ago
  Zero repercussions? Nick Cannon lost his job and board position, and rightfully so [0]. Do not misconstrue the consequences - people will be fired or blacklisted for these anti-Semitic comments, and that's frankly a good thing. [0] https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/entertainment/nick-cannon-viacom-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/entertainment/nick-cannon-via...
  - ciarannolan 6y ago
    You're right that Nick Cannon is the exception. (edit: actually, you're wrong: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon-to-keep-the-masked-singer-gig-on-fox-a/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon...) How about Ice Cube, Stephen Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Dwyane Wade, etc. and all those who supported the comments or brushed them off as "speaking their truth" or some other nonsense? They will face no consequences, because, again, racism is deemed okay in the current climate as long as it's aimed correctly. Can you even _imagine_ the absolute chaos that would rein if a white NBA player started quoting David Duke to millions of followers, and a bunch of white NBA players and commentators supported them?
    - amznthrwaway 6y ago
      The fucking US President quotes white supremacists regularly. Shut the fuck up, you vile, dishonest, race war loving piece of shit.
    - baddox 6y ago
      > They will face no consequences... > Can you even _imagine_ the absolute chaos that would rein if... I think everyone has their own media diet, influenced partly by their own choices and partly by algorithms. Your media diet likely has a huge effect on whose reactions you see and thus which reactions you perceive to be "brushing something off" or "absolute chaos."
      - ciarannolan 6y ago
        True - I need to keep in mind that Twitter isn't "everyone". But at the same time, these are well known public figures broadcasting openly racist and anti-Semitic thoughts to millions of people. I'm not completely sure what to make of it.
        baddox 6y ago
        Even within Twitter there will be a vast difference. If a liberal quotes a conservative tweet in disapproval you will see replies from liberals also expressing disapproval. But if another conservative quotes the same tweet in approval, you’ll see a bunch of conservatives replying in approval. It would be incorrect to conclude either “everyone realized that tweet was terrible” and “everyone agreed with that tweet.”
- octernion 6y ago
  yeah definitely there were zero repercussions and nick cannon definitely didn't lose his job. ??? what are you talking about.
  - ciarannolan 6y ago
    Ice Cube, Stephen Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Dwyane Wade, etc. If you want to do this accounting, I'm really here for you. Also, he didn't lose his job here: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon-to-keep-the-masked-singer-gig-on-fox-a/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon...
    - octernion 6y ago
      i have no idea what you are talking about. folks are being held accountable, you said they weren't. are you saying that it's not happening fast enough for your liking? you were straight up wrong.
      - ciarannolan 6y ago
        No, I was straight up right. Look at my edit: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon-to-keep-the-masked-singer-gig-on-fox-a/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon...
- amznthrwaway 6y ago
  @dang: could you please borrow some fucking decency and stop whiny white supremacists from shitting all over this site? The above is absolute horseshit which was posted here because the poster knew, with certainty, that they'd face no consequences for posting straight up false information meant to inflame race war. Flip the script. Ban the lying race-war loving white supremacists.
davinic 6y ago
Because power dynamics play a huge role when we're talking about systemic issues, and the current system gives most favorable outcomes to white males. It's not that the other cases are not important, but dealing with them deserves less priority unless and until they structurally hold that power and receive the benefits.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  Why do people buy into this nonsense?
  - shadowgovt 6y ago
    It has a long history of evidence supporting it. https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Bertrand_LakishaJamal.pdf https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Bertrand... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/
  - davinic 6y ago
    With which part do you disagree and what is your basis for that?
    - eternalban 6y ago
      There are 2 parts here: (1) problem, and (2) remedy. The issue for myself and likeminded individuals who actually do not have a stake in the current "power dynamics" -- I could post during the Twitter hack -- is "part" (2). Where are the "scientific" and "rational" studies on the du jour mob tactics cum "remedy" to social injustice? As a spectator it is reminiscent of previous attempts at "remedy", notably the Cultural Revolution by Chairman Mao. That didn't really solve anything, did it? Distorted power dynamics certainly should be addressed. There are actually quite a few elephants in the room that aren't even discussed. But please do not make a claim that mobilized mob squads are a "proven remedy to fix power dynamic's distortions in society". The historical verdict on this is: one group of power holders replaces another.

can you explain what research you have done in the racism in tech space? edit: i mean this in good faith since that question is an incredibly complicated one involving power dynamics and systemic issues that can't be boiled down to a simplistic answer. why the downvotes?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

ciarannolan 6y ago

No explanation necessary. It's the same old racism, but with a new 2020 twist: it's ok as long as it's racism against people we don't like. Check out the recent spate of black athletes and celebrities posting openly anti-Semitic comments on social media (one directly (mis)quoting Hitler re: Jews) with zero repercussions. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2020/07/08/stephen-jackson-defends-desean-jacksons-fake-adolf-hitler-quote-posts/5399430002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2020/07/08/stephen... https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/jewish-leaders-condemn-hurtful-words-nick-cannon-71810371 https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/jewish-leader... https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/hip-hop/9400472/ice-cube-criticized-anti-semitic-images-conspiracy-theories https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/hip-hop/9400472/i... A really thoughtful piece about this by Kareem Abdul Jabbar here too: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kareem-abdul-jabbar-is-outrage-anti-semitism-sports-hollywood-1303210 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kareem-abdul-jabbar-i...

whymauri 6y ago
Zero repercussions? Nick Cannon lost his job and board position, and rightfully so [0]. Do not misconstrue the consequences - people will be fired or blacklisted for these anti-Semitic comments, and that's frankly a good thing. [0] https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/entertainment/nick-cannon-viacom-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/entertainment/nick-cannon-via...
- ciarannolan 6y ago
  You're right that Nick Cannon is the exception. (edit: actually, you're wrong: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon-to-keep-the-masked-singer-gig-on-fox-a/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon...) How about Ice Cube, Stephen Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Dwyane Wade, etc. and all those who supported the comments or brushed them off as "speaking their truth" or some other nonsense? They will face no consequences, because, again, racism is deemed okay in the current climate as long as it's aimed correctly. Can you even _imagine_ the absolute chaos that would rein if a white NBA player started quoting David Duke to millions of followers, and a bunch of white NBA players and commentators supported them?
  - amznthrwaway 6y ago
    The fucking US President quotes white supremacists regularly. Shut the fuck up, you vile, dishonest, race war loving piece of shit.
  - baddox 6y ago
    > They will face no consequences... > Can you even _imagine_ the absolute chaos that would rein if... I think everyone has their own media diet, influenced partly by their own choices and partly by algorithms. Your media diet likely has a huge effect on whose reactions you see and thus which reactions you perceive to be "brushing something off" or "absolute chaos."
    - ciarannolan 6y ago
      True - I need to keep in mind that Twitter isn't "everyone". But at the same time, these are well known public figures broadcasting openly racist and anti-Semitic thoughts to millions of people. I'm not completely sure what to make of it.
      - baddox 6y ago
        Even within Twitter there will be a vast difference. If a liberal quotes a conservative tweet in disapproval you will see replies from liberals also expressing disapproval. But if another conservative quotes the same tweet in approval, you’ll see a bunch of conservatives replying in approval. It would be incorrect to conclude either “everyone realized that tweet was terrible” and “everyone agreed with that tweet.”
octernion 6y ago
yeah definitely there were zero repercussions and nick cannon definitely didn't lose his job. ??? what are you talking about.
- ciarannolan 6y ago
  Ice Cube, Stephen Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Dwyane Wade, etc. If you want to do this accounting, I'm really here for you. Also, he didn't lose his job here: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon-to-keep-the-masked-singer-gig-on-fox-a/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon...
  - octernion 6y ago
    i have no idea what you are talking about. folks are being held accountable, you said they weren't. are you saying that it's not happening fast enough for your liking? you were straight up wrong.
    - ciarannolan 6y ago
      No, I was straight up right. Look at my edit: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon-to-keep-the-masked-singer-gig-on-fox-a/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/nick-cannon...
amznthrwaway 6y ago
@dang: could you please borrow some fucking decency and stop whiny white supremacists from shitting all over this site? The above is absolute horseshit which was posted here because the poster knew, with certainty, that they'd face no consequences for posting straight up false information meant to inflame race war. Flip the script. Ban the lying race-war loving white supremacists.

davinic 6y ago

Because power dynamics play a huge role when we're talking about systemic issues, and the current system gives most favorable outcomes to white males. It's not that the other cases are not important, but dealing with them deserves less priority unless and until they structurally hold that power and receive the benefits.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago
Why do people buy into this nonsense?
- shadowgovt 6y ago
  It has a long history of evidence supporting it. https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Bertrand_LakishaJamal.pdf https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Bertrand... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/
- davinic 6y ago
  With which part do you disagree and what is your basis for that?
  - eternalban 6y ago
    There are 2 parts here: (1) problem, and (2) remedy. The issue for myself and likeminded individuals who actually do not have a stake in the current "power dynamics" -- I could post during the Twitter hack -- is "part" (2). Where are the "scientific" and "rational" studies on the du jour mob tactics cum "remedy" to social injustice? As a spectator it is reminiscent of previous attempts at "remedy", notably the Cultural Revolution by Chairman Mao. That didn't really solve anything, did it? Distorted power dynamics certainly should be addressed. There are actually quite a few elephants in the room that aren't even discussed. But please do not make a claim that mobilized mob squads are a "proven remedy to fix power dynamic's distortions in society". The historical verdict on this is: one group of power holders replaces another.