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This article is really interesting, but I think an important part of this that it didn't discuss is misinformation. The Chinese[1] and Russian[2] governments a

by cowpig 6y ago

This article is really interesting, but I think an important part of this that it didn't discuss is misinformation. The Chinese[1] and Russian[2] governments are known to be engaging in misinformation at a scale never seen before, and across geographic boundaries. Many other misinformation operations are also in force. Meanwhile, the primary source of news for a significant portion of the globe does little to combat it[3]. In fact it has an explicit policy of treating falsehoods the same as truth. That was never possible before the age of information, and I think it changes the landscape of news enough that it merits a place in this discussion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/national-security/russian-propaganda-skripal-salisbury/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/national-... [3] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akz7qa/facebook-finally-agreed-to-a-civil-rights-audit-and-surprise-surprise-it-failed https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akz7qa/facebook-finally-a...

the-dude 6y ago
Why are you targetting China and Russia in particular? We have had Radio Free Europe, Iraqi Weapons of Mass-Destruction and smearing of Huawei. I know that is whataboutism, but what about it?
- cowpig 6y ago
  always interested to learn about other misinformation machines, but your comment lacks sources
Aunche 6y ago
It's ironic that you listed the Wikipedia entry as evidence the 50 cent army is engaging in disinformation at an international scale. The only cited source for this describes a Huffington Post commenter disagreeing with an article and the author claiming that the commenter is a paid Chinese shill.
- cowpig 6y ago
  Here are some more sources: https://www.propublica.org/article/how-china-built-a-twitter-propaganda-machine-then-let-it-loose-on-coronavirus https://www.propublica.org/article/how-china-built-a-twitter... https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/a-wuhan-writers-life-during-the-outbreak-censorship-misinformation-and-anger/2020/07/01/f2919df6-ab4a-11ea-9063-e69bd6520940_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/a-wuhan-writers-life-... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/23/world/asia/china-hong-kong-propaganda.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/23/world/asia/china-hong-kon... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/19/the-chinese-government-fakes-nearly-450-million-social-media-comments-a-year-this-is-why/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/1... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-twitter-disinformation/twitter-takes-down-beijing-backed-influence-operation-pushing-coronavirus-messages-idUSKBN23I3A3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-twitter-disinformat...
  - Aunche 6y ago
    I don't disagree that China engages in global disinformation. I wouldn't have any problem with your comment if you had originally listed any of the sources above instead of the Wikipedia entry for the 50 cent army. My issue is that people on Hackernews and Reddit claim that anyone who says something that can remotely be interpreted as defending China must be a 50-cent shill. These supposed fighters of disinformation don't even bother to check whether is any evidence that the CCP is paying people to comment on English websites.
082349872349872 6y ago
The age of information (and knock-on misinformation) started around 1440. It's quantitatively easier these days, but the qualitative techniques remain recognisable. Remember the Maine! Linebarger's Psychological Warfare (1948) has a history of tradecraft that goes back to biblical episodes. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm flame wars in the seventeenth: "The vocabulary of seventeenth-century propaganda had a strident tone which is, perhaps unfortunately, getting to be characteristic of the twentieth century. The following epithets sound like an American Legion description of Communists, or a Communist description of the Polish democrats, yet they were applied in a book by a Lutheran to Quakers. The title of the tirade reads, in part: ... a description of the ... new Quakers, making known the sum of their manifold blasphemous opinions, dangerous practices, Godless crimes, attempts to subvert civil government in the churches and in the community life of the world; together with their idiotic games, their laughable action and behavior, which is enough to make sober Christian persons breathless, and which is like death, and which can display the lazy stinking cadaver of their fanatical doctrines.... In its first few pages, the book accuses the Quakers of obscenity, adultery, civil commotion, conspiracy, blasphemy, subversion and lunacy. Milton was not out of fashion in applying bad manners to propaganda. It is merely regrettable that he did not transcend the frailties of his time." (europe's wars of religion were both extremely polarising and far less effective at determining who was right than who was left.)

by cowpig 6y ago

the-dude 6y ago

Why are you targetting China and Russia in particular? We have had Radio Free Europe, Iraqi Weapons of Mass-Destruction and smearing of Huawei. I know that is whataboutism, but what about it?

cowpig 6y ago
always interested to learn about other misinformation machines, but your comment lacks sources

Aunche 6y ago

It's ironic that you listed the Wikipedia entry as evidence the 50 cent army is engaging in disinformation at an international scale. The only cited source for this describes a Huffington Post commenter disagreeing with an article and the author claiming that the commenter is a paid Chinese shill.

cowpig 6y ago
Here are some more sources: https://www.propublica.org/article/how-china-built-a-twitter-propaganda-machine-then-let-it-loose-on-coronavirus https://www.propublica.org/article/how-china-built-a-twitter... https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/a-wuhan-writers-life-during-the-outbreak-censorship-misinformation-and-anger/2020/07/01/f2919df6-ab4a-11ea-9063-e69bd6520940_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/a-wuhan-writers-life-... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/23/world/asia/china-hong-kong-propaganda.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/23/world/asia/china-hong-kon... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/19/the-chinese-government-fakes-nearly-450-million-social-media-comments-a-year-this-is-why/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/1... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-twitter-disinformation/twitter-takes-down-beijing-backed-influence-operation-pushing-coronavirus-messages-idUSKBN23I3A3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-twitter-disinformat...
- Aunche 6y ago
  I don't disagree that China engages in global disinformation. I wouldn't have any problem with your comment if you had originally listed any of the sources above instead of the Wikipedia entry for the 50 cent army. My issue is that people on Hackernews and Reddit claim that anyone who says something that can remotely be interpreted as defending China must be a 50-cent shill. These supposed fighters of disinformation don't even bother to check whether is any evidence that the CCP is paying people to comment on English websites.

082349872349872 6y ago

The age of information (and knock-on misinformation) started around 1440. It's quantitatively easier these days, but the qualitative techniques remain recognisable. Remember the Maine! Linebarger's Psychological Warfare (1948) has a history of tradecraft that goes back to biblical episodes. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm flame wars in the seventeenth: "The vocabulary of seventeenth-century propaganda had a strident tone which is, perhaps unfortunately, getting to be characteristic of the twentieth century. The following epithets sound like an American Legion description of Communists, or a Communist description of the Polish democrats, yet they were applied in a book by a Lutheran to Quakers. The title of the tirade reads, in part: ... a description of the ... new Quakers, making known the sum of their manifold blasphemous opinions, dangerous practices, Godless crimes, attempts to subvert civil government in the churches and in the community life of the world; together with their idiotic games, their laughable action and behavior, which is enough to make sober Christian persons breathless, and which is like death, and which can display the lazy stinking cadaver of their fanatical doctrines.... In its first few pages, the book accuses the Quakers of obscenity, adultery, civil commotion, conspiracy, blasphemy, subversion and lunacy. Milton was not out of fashion in applying bad manners to propaganda. It is merely regrettable that he did not transcend the frailties of his time." (europe's wars of religion were both extremely polarising and far less effective at determining who was right than who was left.)