4 ms·

In practice, newspapers just have different thought leaders now. Once, reporters parroted "a government spokesman confirmed that" -- this was treated as pure f

In practice, newspapers just have different thought leaders now. Once, reporters parroted "a government spokesman confirmed that" -- this was treated as pure fact. It wasn't perfect, but in the U.S. context it generally didn't seem far off the mark. Now the narrative is provided by the opaque party apparatus of the DNC and GOP. This leads to one result-- factual inaccuracy. Media coverage of key issues thus has become little better than the political propaganda from non-free global rivals in the 20th century. Quite a fall.

phkahler 6y ago
>> Now the narrative is provided by the opaque party apparatus of the DNC and GOP. No. I still get the NYT daily email briefing and it shows a clear bias and agenda every day. Which reminds me, I need to cancel that.
- yetanta 6y ago
  You are seeing one of the parties opaque view. The DNC seems to have a better handle on their operatives than the GOP. That resignation letter from a few days ago for that particular organization shows a very toxic place to work at. Where if you do not toe the line you are attacked daily. Fear and intimidation and loss of group are proven ways to make your point the loudest. Mr. Bernays should be proud of the monster he set loose upon us.
- cyberlurker 6y ago
  I don't disagree, I see something that looks like a bias too. But on some of the issues (wearing a mask, climate change) the GOP is so off the mark how can the NYT not come across (appearing) biased? I've also noticed the past few months they now make an even greater effort to call out racism by some politicians. Is this an agenda or just factual observations? There are a lot of discussions on race right now and a lot of dog whistles. I go back and forth, but for the most part I think the NYT does a better job than most. Their opinion section is atrocious.
  - watwut 6y ago
    > But on some of the issues (wearing a mask, climate change) the GOP is so off the mark how can the NYT not come across biased? Unbiased should not mean "always making it look like both parties are right". That is bias on itself. If I lie about you, really lie, objective non-biased thing is not to say "watwut and cyberlurker disagreed, the truth is in the middle".
    - cyberlurker 6y ago
      I agree. I should have said "how can the NYT not come across looking biased" on the issues of masks and climate change (or any issue with a scientific consensus that one side inexplicably challenges).
- Shacklz 6y ago
  As a European with a digital subscription to the NYT - how are they supposed to treat both parties equally? The GOP, from my European point of view, seems to have completely abandoned any belief in science and civilized discussion and just spouts whatever appeals most to their base. In my opinion in the age of Trump (arguably even before that), it has simply become impossible to treat both sides equally. And every time they try - see e.g. the article by Tom Cotton that they printed - it becomes glaringly obvious that it does not work.
  - gedy 6y ago
    > "seems to have completely abandoned any belief in science and civilized discussion and just spouts whatever appeals most to their base." You could make the same case that "the other side" does same with all the recent attacks on academia, scientists, & celebrities regarding science around genetics, gender, etc
    - augustt 6y ago
      Would that 'science' happen to be the very productive discussion of reminding transgenders of their birth sex every day a la Ben Shapiro?
      - gedy 6y ago
        My comment tried to be clear that I'm not talking about political agitators, please don't make a straw man to detract from main point.
  - orthecreedence 6y ago
    Congratulations, you don't even live here and you've been enlisted to take sides. This is the power of American media. Division is profitable, so we capitalize off of it and drive wedges further and further between people who actually aren't much different. Are the GOP obstructionist creeps? Yes. But the DNC are only slightly better. Both parties are wings of the Capitalist Imperialist Party, who will stop at nothing to hand control of the country over to banks and corporate interests while creating false divisions over fringe social issues to distract everyone. "Democracy" at its finest.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  You label the NYT as biased not because of its bias, but because you disagree with its reporting (i.e. your own bias.) instead you will go to somewhere you agree - and you will be worse off for it. Things can be biased towards the truth just as much as the untrue. The NYT does have some truly eye-roll content for me - but they also have some very good articles. Just like the WSJ has eye roll content.
  - phkahler 6y ago
    >> You label the NYT as biased not because of its bias, but because you disagree with its reporting That's really impressive psychoanalysis on your part. NOT. I've considered that and looked at it from a number of angles and the conclusion is that they are biased. My own biases are not partisan, but tend toward a dislike of things like hypocrisy and misconstruing facts - behavior I see often at NYT and WaPo.
    - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
      > That's really impressive psychoanalysis on your part. NOT. I've considered that and looked at it from a number of angles and the conclusion is that they are biased. Not? Haven't heard that one since the 4th grade. Keep on "owning the libs" man.
- QuesnayJr 6y ago
  Bias which way?

phkahler 6y ago

>> Now the narrative is provided by the opaque party apparatus of the DNC and GOP. No. I still get the NYT daily email briefing and it shows a clear bias and agenda every day. Which reminds me, I need to cancel that.

yetanta 6y ago
You are seeing one of the parties opaque view. The DNC seems to have a better handle on their operatives than the GOP. That resignation letter from a few days ago for that particular organization shows a very toxic place to work at. Where if you do not toe the line you are attacked daily. Fear and intimidation and loss of group are proven ways to make your point the loudest. Mr. Bernays should be proud of the monster he set loose upon us.
cyberlurker 6y ago
I don't disagree, I see something that looks like a bias too. But on some of the issues (wearing a mask, climate change) the GOP is so off the mark how can the NYT not come across (appearing) biased? I've also noticed the past few months they now make an even greater effort to call out racism by some politicians. Is this an agenda or just factual observations? There are a lot of discussions on race right now and a lot of dog whistles. I go back and forth, but for the most part I think the NYT does a better job than most. Their opinion section is atrocious.
- watwut 6y ago
  > But on some of the issues (wearing a mask, climate change) the GOP is so off the mark how can the NYT not come across biased? Unbiased should not mean "always making it look like both parties are right". That is bias on itself. If I lie about you, really lie, objective non-biased thing is not to say "watwut and cyberlurker disagreed, the truth is in the middle".
  - cyberlurker 6y ago
    I agree. I should have said "how can the NYT not come across looking biased" on the issues of masks and climate change (or any issue with a scientific consensus that one side inexplicably challenges).
Shacklz 6y ago
As a European with a digital subscription to the NYT - how are they supposed to treat both parties equally? The GOP, from my European point of view, seems to have completely abandoned any belief in science and civilized discussion and just spouts whatever appeals most to their base. In my opinion in the age of Trump (arguably even before that), it has simply become impossible to treat both sides equally. And every time they try - see e.g. the article by Tom Cotton that they printed - it becomes glaringly obvious that it does not work.
- gedy 6y ago
  > "seems to have completely abandoned any belief in science and civilized discussion and just spouts whatever appeals most to their base." You could make the same case that "the other side" does same with all the recent attacks on academia, scientists, & celebrities regarding science around genetics, gender, etc
  - augustt 6y ago
    Would that 'science' happen to be the very productive discussion of reminding transgenders of their birth sex every day a la Ben Shapiro?
    - gedy 6y ago
      My comment tried to be clear that I'm not talking about political agitators, please don't make a straw man to detract from main point.
- orthecreedence 6y ago
  Congratulations, you don't even live here and you've been enlisted to take sides. This is the power of American media. Division is profitable, so we capitalize off of it and drive wedges further and further between people who actually aren't much different. Are the GOP obstructionist creeps? Yes. But the DNC are only slightly better. Both parties are wings of the Capitalist Imperialist Party, who will stop at nothing to hand control of the country over to banks and corporate interests while creating false divisions over fringe social issues to distract everyone. "Democracy" at its finest.
ntsplnkv2 6y ago
You label the NYT as biased not because of its bias, but because you disagree with its reporting (i.e. your own bias.) instead you will go to somewhere you agree - and you will be worse off for it. Things can be biased towards the truth just as much as the untrue. The NYT does have some truly eye-roll content for me - but they also have some very good articles. Just like the WSJ has eye roll content.
- phkahler 6y ago
  >> You label the NYT as biased not because of its bias, but because you disagree with its reporting That's really impressive psychoanalysis on your part. NOT. I've considered that and looked at it from a number of angles and the conclusion is that they are biased. My own biases are not partisan, but tend toward a dislike of things like hypocrisy and misconstruing facts - behavior I see often at NYT and WaPo.
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    > That's really impressive psychoanalysis on your part. NOT. I've considered that and looked at it from a number of angles and the conclusion is that they are biased. Not? Haven't heard that one since the 4th grade. Keep on "owning the libs" man.
QuesnayJr 6y ago
Bias which way?