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We are not powerless against this. We eat more meat than ever. We subsidize meat production at every level so that all taxpayers pay for cheap meat, even veget
by spodek 6y ago
We are not powerless against this.
We eat more meat than ever. We subsidize meat production at every level so that all taxpayers pay for cheap meat, even vegetarians and vegans.
We can reduce subsidies, or even reverse them to accurately account for the externalities of pollution and global heating.
While population growth rate is lowering, humans are still increasing in population. We can make contraception and education more available globally.
The United States' science education has declined for generations so people don't understand nature and how we affect it. We can improve science education.
- 6d6b73 6y agoMeat is not the problem. Long before people there was more animals alive on this planet and they pooped, farted and ate each other at a scale that we can't imagine. Just think about the bison, or passenger pigeons.
- lumberingjack 6y agoAbsolutely this as a native American one of my biggest dreams is to view America before all of the forest was completely removed from the entire country and to see all of mega herds of whitetail deer and bison roam free. Carrier pigeon phlox so large they block out the sky for half a day
- gbrown 6y agoInterestingly, much of the current young woodland would have been gone, replaced by prairie and oak savanna.
- gbrown 6y agoCitation needed? They ate grass instead of corn, and spread their waste over vast areas of wilderness, ready to be incorporated back into the plantlife. Also, a quick Google search says there were 30-60 million bison roaming the plains. Today, there are 95 million cows, and another 70 some million pigs.
- 6d6b73 6y agoNot all cows are used for meat. Bison, and pigeons are just two examples, but as you can imagine, all over planet there were billions of animals that are not either extinct or close to being extinct. How about european bison, aurochs, wild pigs, and many many more. Cows are just one example of the bovine family. I don't claim that farmed meat does not contribute anything, but it's not the only, or even main problem of the climate change. Start a garden, and see for yourself how much resources it takes to grow enough plant food to feed your family,and compare that to a number calories you can get from one cow.
- gbrown 6y agoNo offense, but you appear to be just making up your numbers and inventing the conclusions from whole cloth. Nobody would dispute that the biosphere was richer and more diverse in the past, but all of those animals were part of a global equilibrium (at least on the order of 10s of thousands of years, nothing is permanent). Currently, the animals in our food system are not. I do garden extensively, and I know how difficult it is to produce food for a whole year. I also know that feeding carbon intensive corn to cows to eat is a thermodynamically loosing game calorie-wise. If you want to pay for regeneratively raised, grass fed beef from farms with integrated waste management, good for you. If you think your 99c hamburger at a fast food restaurant isn’t part of a climate and ethical catastrophe, I think you’re being willfully ignorant. Personally I’m a vegetarian, but the main thing I care about is that people eat less meat, which was more sustainably and ethically raised. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C16&q=cows+methane+contribution&oq=cows+methane+contri https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C16&q=cow...
- aaaxyz 6y ago>all over planet there were billions of animals that are not either extinct or close to being extinct There used to be more diversity amongst animals but that doesn't change the fact that there is 3 times more cattle in North America now than there used to live in the wild. >I don't claim that farmed meat does not contribute anything, but it's not the only, or even main problem of the climate change. Climate change does not have a "main problem", it's multiple minor causes that each need to be addressed (and agriculture is a big one). >Start a garden, and see for yourself how much resources it takes to grow enough plant food to feed your family,and compare that to a number calories you can get from one cow. Are you implying the cow doesn't need to be fed? Cows need a lot more water and land per gram of protein or per calorie than fish, poultry or legumes. https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2014Natur.515..518T/abstract https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2014Natur.515..518T/abstra... https://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/987 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/987
- totetsu 6y agocontemporary cows are fed a homogenous diet that make their burps and farts a lot worse than wild foraging animals.
- 6d6b73 6y agoYes, but that's not problem of meat, just farming.
- perfunctory 6y agoIf we were farming sustainably (only grass fed etc.) we wouldn't be able to produce as much meat as we do today. Which implies that on average everybody would eat less meat. Much less.
- totetsu 6y agoGrasses that have been developed for pastoral farming still lead to more methane burps. Current research seems to be focused on breading grasses / other pasture crops, and breading animals that produce less methane, Vaccines that could be given to animals, Inhibitors that could be added to their diet[1], and modeling of the methane formation process. But yes, the simplest way to reduce it would be to reduce the number of animals, by eating less meat. [1] https://www.pggrc.co.nz/files/1501479614891.pdf https://www.pggrc.co.nz/files/1501479614891.pdf
- gridlockd 6y agoEnteric fermentation only accounts for 30% of emissions, while emissions from fertilizer for plants is highly underestimated: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969718302754 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896971... I'm glad that I can eat a meat-and-dairy-based diet and am not forced to fill my calories with garbage plant-based substitutes. If you want to work on reducing enteric fermentation emissions with technology, I'm all for it. If you want me to cut my consumption of meat to save a few percent of methane that will do next to nothing for climate change, then get off my lawn.
- daneel_w 6y ago"I'm glad that I can eat a meat-and-dairy-based diet and am not forced to fill my calories with garbage plant-based substitutes." Must they be garbage substitutes? Must your vegetabilic food look and taste like a meat facsimile? I hear this perspective often from meat-eaters when they contrast their diet to a vegetarian diet, and I cannot understand it.
- gridlockd 6y agoYou can't understand that people like meat, eggs and dairy and that they don't want to miss out on them?
- daneel_w 6y agoI certainly understand it, but surely you have more on your plate than just eggs, cheese and steaks to provide calories. For what it's worth I've come across several excellent meat facsimiles. I don't worry about any potential harm coming from a smaller portion of a proper cooked meal being a processed product.
- DangitBobby 6y agoKeep in mind that it takes much more fertilizer to feed a cow that is then converted to food than it would to just grow the food. The 30% likely doesn't take into account the gigantic portion of fertilizer emissions that wouldn't exist if we weren't feeding so many cows, etc.
- DrBazza 6y agoMeanwhile... global population is expected to peak and then decrease. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23840670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23840670
- loopz 6y agoAnd authorities still recommending 2.0 children for some reason. Global logistics still not optimized.
- perfunctory 6y ago> And authorities still recommending 2.0 What do you mean? I never heard any official recommendations.
- loopz 6y agoThey accompany such articles about projected population decline, at least in Europe. It's a local optimization thing (politics)!
- the8472 6y agoChildren die occasionally. So 2.0 already is slightly below replacement rate.
- Fjolsvith 6y agoI wonder if the opposite is really the cause. With the meat packaging plant closures and the "shortage" of beef, the cattle herds are probably growing in numbers, which could cause the spike of methane.
- rsynnott 6y agoThat would be an extremely short-term effect if demand actually fell.
- loopz 6y agoAs a vegetarian I am still expected to subsidize, even receive meat on the dish, with a smile. Yet, just eating my food, this is an affront to most people around me. We fought for 20 years, but people still just don't give a fuck!