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Imagine every country comes up with a similar law restricting personal data transfers. This will render Internet useless.

danarmak 6y ago
An Internet with no personal data is a far cry from useless.
- perpetualpatzer 6y ago
  But surely, you'd concede it's far less useful. No international email, social media. No access to foreign websites: IP addresses are personal data [0]. Possibly, service delivery is feasible if you set up a warehouse in both locations to freight forward, but any vendor without the means to operate in each country. While I expect my EU pals will say "but of course we will never apply the law that way," if this was the intent of the legislation, the legislation looks an awful lot like a nationalist tariff. [0]https://www.alstonprivacy.com/ecj-declares-ip-addresses-personal-data/?cn-reloaded=1 https://www.alstonprivacy.com/ecj-declares-ip-addresses-pers...
  - danarmak 6y ago
    > No access to foreign websites: IP addresses are personal data The OP talks about not storing personal data, which would mean e.g. not keeping logs of client IP addresses; that does not forbid the Internet. I agree that a law that literally says or is interpreted to say that my IP address must not cross international borders, forbids the international Internet. But there is no such law. It's possible to put together an argument to interpret laws in an undesirable or unexpected way. That's what lawyers are for. We have to have some measure of confidence in court rulings, that's part of the system, law interpretation is always being challenged. > No international email, social media. To the best of my understanding, the GDPR allows people to opt-in to send personal data. If I send an email to someone in the US, I deliberately share e.g. my name with them; that's legal. If I send an email to someone in Europe, and my and their email providers are companies operating in Europe, they should not transmit or store the email through US servers. That's not impossible. At least that's my understanding. The problem with social networks is legitimate, and a real problem, but it's vastly smaller than "the Internet".
int_19h 6y ago
Why would it? This just means that people would be in control of when and where their personal data is transferred. If you choose to, say, make your profile public to the world, I don't see how that would be affected.
Vespasian 6y ago
In fact if others come up with similar laws (even vaguely), the EU laws, as they are now, would allow the the transfer. For example Switzerland, Japan, South Korea etc
nix23 6y ago
>This will render Internet useless No it will render the internet back to what it once was, and not a personal data market platform for the big company's. Remember it about Personal Data.
belorn 6y ago
We can already see some of the result from the trade conflict between China and US. Centralized services, ie search, video hosting, social networks, cloud services and so on will likely be copied for each nation and exist as national or regional versions. The other part the Internet, ie the decentralized part will likely continue to be unaffected. The big threat to that part is national firewalls and when infrastructure become centralized such as current trends in DNS resolving.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
How so? Thanks to technology nowadays, it's easy to set up a local copy of your stack in a random datacenter, and to do your statistical analysis and optimization there as well. There is no reason to ship all that data off to the US other than cost optimization and data hoarding.
simion314 6y ago
The law allows data transfers but with some conditions. So if US or China don't want to respect privacy then the data can't be transferred there but if Canada would accept this agreemnts then you could transfer data there. The barriers are raised by the countries that do not respect privacy laws You don't want EU to read your private emails but US should be able to read them, so you agree that you won't read the emails but you don't respect this agreement, what else can be done?

danarmak 6y ago

An Internet with no personal data is a far cry from useless.

perpetualpatzer 6y ago
But surely, you'd concede it's far less useful. No international email, social media. No access to foreign websites: IP addresses are personal data [0]. Possibly, service delivery is feasible if you set up a warehouse in both locations to freight forward, but any vendor without the means to operate in each country. While I expect my EU pals will say "but of course we will never apply the law that way," if this was the intent of the legislation, the legislation looks an awful lot like a nationalist tariff. [0]https://www.alstonprivacy.com/ecj-declares-ip-addresses-personal-data/?cn-reloaded=1 https://www.alstonprivacy.com/ecj-declares-ip-addresses-pers...
- danarmak 6y ago
  > No access to foreign websites: IP addresses are personal data The OP talks about not storing personal data, which would mean e.g. not keeping logs of client IP addresses; that does not forbid the Internet. I agree that a law that literally says or is interpreted to say that my IP address must not cross international borders, forbids the international Internet. But there is no such law. It's possible to put together an argument to interpret laws in an undesirable or unexpected way. That's what lawyers are for. We have to have some measure of confidence in court rulings, that's part of the system, law interpretation is always being challenged. > No international email, social media. To the best of my understanding, the GDPR allows people to opt-in to send personal data. If I send an email to someone in the US, I deliberately share e.g. my name with them; that's legal. If I send an email to someone in Europe, and my and their email providers are companies operating in Europe, they should not transmit or store the email through US servers. That's not impossible. At least that's my understanding. The problem with social networks is legitimate, and a real problem, but it's vastly smaller than "the Internet".

int_19h 6y ago

Why would it? This just means that people would be in control of when and where their personal data is transferred. If you choose to, say, make your profile public to the world, I don't see how that would be affected.

Vespasian 6y ago

In fact if others come up with similar laws (even vaguely), the EU laws, as they are now, would allow the the transfer. For example Switzerland, Japan, South Korea etc

nix23 6y ago

>This will render Internet useless No it will render the internet back to what it once was, and not a personal data market platform for the big company's. Remember it about Personal Data.

belorn 6y ago

We can already see some of the result from the trade conflict between China and US. Centralized services, ie search, video hosting, social networks, cloud services and so on will likely be copied for each nation and exist as national or regional versions. The other part the Internet, ie the decentralized part will likely continue to be unaffected. The big threat to that part is national firewalls and when infrastructure become centralized such as current trends in DNS resolving.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

How so? Thanks to technology nowadays, it's easy to set up a local copy of your stack in a random datacenter, and to do your statistical analysis and optimization there as well. There is no reason to ship all that data off to the US other than cost optimization and data hoarding.

simion314 6y ago

The law allows data transfers but with some conditions. So if US or China don't want to respect privacy then the data can't be transferred there but if Canada would accept this agreemnts then you could transfer data there. The barriers are raised by the countries that do not respect privacy laws You don't want EU to read your private emails but US should be able to read them, so you agree that you won't read the emails but you don't respect this agreement, what else can be done?