4 ms·

I would be willing to entertain the point that systematic racism exists if universities had roughly equivalent admission rates for all races for identical test

by 0xy 6y ago

I would be willing to entertain the point that systematic racism exists if universities had roughly equivalent admission rates for all races for identical test scores, however black people tend to have significantly higher rates of admission than white people, and very significantly higher rates than Asian people. If systemic racism exists in a specific direction as you imply, why do institutions have their fingers on the scale in favor of the oppressed race? In fact, if students were treated identically without the consideration of race then black admission rates to universities would dramatically fall.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> If systemic racism exists in a specific direction as you imply, why do institutions have their fingers on the scale in favor of the oppressed race? You are literally asking “if systemic racism exists, why are specific institutions taking specific steps to correct systemic racism”. Suggesting that you think that if anyone notices and attempts to address systemic racism, then it must not exist.
- 0xy 6y ago
  By putting your finger on the scale, you disadvantage everyone else (including other minorities, by the way). This throws Asian minorities under the bus to help black minorities. Replacing racism with more racism. Your argument appears to be "systemic racism is okay against certain minorities because other minorities deserve more chances in life". You are encouraging the establishment of systems that systematically discriminate against Asian people by substantial margins. Sorry, but having different standards for different races is the definition of racism. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character" Lowering the bar for black people is not judging them by the content of their character, or treating them as individuals. In fact, it's judging them primarily on the color of their skin.
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  So why aren't whites being disadvantaged more than Asians? Asians aren't at fault for America's putative racism problems.
  - crmrc114 6y ago
    At some point people are going to wake up and figure out that we are all human, and we all have a collection of unique threads in our fabric. There is an recent and pervasive behavior in American media and MegaCorp that is now engaged in straight out Rules for Radicals: "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it" The emergent behavior in media is a closed loop cycle fueled by viewership. If we can increase outrage on each end of the "political spectrum" we can keep people watching. The same feedback loop is taking place on social networks with "The Stream(tm)". I don't know what the solution is- But Hacker News commentators. I love you all.
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    This would be v tribal thinking. (to generalise) white people are to blame for racism, but whites university applicants are not to blame for racism. This paradox arises from the nebulous grouping of "white people" to include all whites, past and present, and ignoring any relevant differences or disproportion of blame. Hence, a white 18 year old somehow inherits crimes of the past committed by white people in the past. That that white person may have entered the country just a few years ago is not taken into account - It is assumed they receive "white privilege" to amount that justifies any magnitude of countermeasure.
- mtgp1000 6y ago
  Do you believe that the NFL is biased against non-blacks? Do you think the ratio of imprisoned men/women in US (or globally) is indicative of institutional sexism? Is the gender disparity in nursing/teaching also evidence of a system which unfairly discriminates against men? And then, if we are truly interested in erasing demographic inequities, why does it seem like the only fields under attack for racism are those occupied predominantly by [straight] white men? Are we going to come for Asians next? And then Jews again, just like in Germany, and the Soviet Union?

by 0xy 6y ago

dragonwriter 6y ago

> If systemic racism exists in a specific direction as you imply, why do institutions have their fingers on the scale in favor of the oppressed race? You are literally asking “if systemic racism exists, why are specific institutions taking specific steps to correct systemic racism”. Suggesting that you think that if anyone notices and attempts to address systemic racism, then it must not exist.

0xy 6y ago
By putting your finger on the scale, you disadvantage everyone else (including other minorities, by the way). This throws Asian minorities under the bus to help black minorities. Replacing racism with more racism. Your argument appears to be "systemic racism is okay against certain minorities because other minorities deserve more chances in life". You are encouraging the establishment of systems that systematically discriminate against Asian people by substantial margins. Sorry, but having different standards for different races is the definition of racism. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character" Lowering the bar for black people is not judging them by the content of their character, or treating them as individuals. In fact, it's judging them primarily on the color of their skin.
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
So why aren't whites being disadvantaged more than Asians? Asians aren't at fault for America's putative racism problems.
- crmrc114 6y ago
  At some point people are going to wake up and figure out that we are all human, and we all have a collection of unique threads in our fabric. There is an recent and pervasive behavior in American media and MegaCorp that is now engaged in straight out Rules for Radicals: "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it" The emergent behavior in media is a closed loop cycle fueled by viewership. If we can increase outrage on each end of the "political spectrum" we can keep people watching. The same feedback loop is taking place on social networks with "The Stream(tm)". I don't know what the solution is- But Hacker News commentators. I love you all.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  This would be v tribal thinking. (to generalise) white people are to blame for racism, but whites university applicants are not to blame for racism. This paradox arises from the nebulous grouping of "white people" to include all whites, past and present, and ignoring any relevant differences or disproportion of blame. Hence, a white 18 year old somehow inherits crimes of the past committed by white people in the past. That that white person may have entered the country just a few years ago is not taken into account - It is assumed they receive "white privilege" to amount that justifies any magnitude of countermeasure.
mtgp1000 6y ago
Do you believe that the NFL is biased against non-blacks? Do you think the ratio of imprisoned men/women in US (or globally) is indicative of institutional sexism? Is the gender disparity in nursing/teaching also evidence of a system which unfairly discriminates against men? And then, if we are truly interested in erasing demographic inequities, why does it seem like the only fields under attack for racism are those occupied predominantly by [straight] white men? Are we going to come for Asians next? And then Jews again, just like in Germany, and the Soviet Union?