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Doesn't the state provide roads for Amazon, and schools for the children of kids employed at the subsidiaries of Apple? I know there are a lot of details in whi

by xrd 6y ago

Doesn't the state provide roads for Amazon, and schools for the children of kids employed at the subsidiaries of Apple? I know there are a lot of details in which "state" (of all the bureaucracies) does that, but is Europe somehow exempt from that arrangement? Is your concern with the EU taking this action instead of Ireland? Isn't that going to be a race to the bottom, where "states" try to out do each other in tax breaks? And, if the cynicism is warranted, aren't lowly paid civic employees going to be outgunned by high paid corporate lobbyists in the end?

ghostwriter 6y ago
The state doesn't provide roads and services on its own, it neither has the required qulification for building them nor posseses funds to sponsor the required effort. Firstly, it needs to take money from somewhere where a money-represented value already exists in the world and then use it to pay for the work of qualified individuals, that tend to self-organise in private entities. The work always is done and the value always is created by individuals. In a transparent world the state wouldn't be able to claim ownership of any results of the work sponsored by money taken from other private entities with a help of the "or else" incantation.
- xrd 6y ago
  Ok. If we take that further, the state isn't claiming credit for anything, it's people claiming it on behalf of a magical idea, right? Are there examples of what you are describing happening in the world?
seppel 6y ago
> Doesn't the state provide roads for Amazon Amazon is already paying for using the roads, since they are by large toll-roads.
- xrd 6y ago
  I haven't done the math on that kind of infrastructure project. I would be very curious (and open minded) about seeing an analysis of how payment for roads plays out, especially with toll roads. In the Portland, OR area (where I live) there are zero toll roads. Maybe that's why I am biased to feeling like state funding these projects is necessary. If Amazon (and anyone else that uses them) were paying for them, perhaps I would think differently.
  - roamerz 6y ago
    The roads in Oregon are paid by a fuel and or license tax. Thus everyone that uses them weather it be commercial or personal pays for them not the state. When you consider the recently failed joint OR-Wa bridge project you get to see what happens when state bureaucracy is in control.
    - xrd 6y ago
      That's a good point. But, isn't it necessary to have the state instituting those taxes? Gas is much cheaper in other states, I wonder how they pay for the same roads. I actually always viewed the failure of the bridge project as a sign that people won over bureaucrats. I felt like it would add a lot of traffic congestion and not solve problems the right way. I would like to read more about what you are suggesting, do you have any links that speak to your viewpoint?

by xrd 6y ago

ghostwriter 6y ago

The state doesn't provide roads and services on its own, it neither has the required qulification for building them nor posseses funds to sponsor the required effort. Firstly, it needs to take money from somewhere where a money-represented value already exists in the world and then use it to pay for the work of qualified individuals, that tend to self-organise in private entities. The work always is done and the value always is created by individuals. In a transparent world the state wouldn't be able to claim ownership of any results of the work sponsored by money taken from other private entities with a help of the "or else" incantation.

xrd 6y ago
Ok. If we take that further, the state isn't claiming credit for anything, it's people claiming it on behalf of a magical idea, right? Are there examples of what you are describing happening in the world?

seppel 6y ago

> Doesn't the state provide roads for Amazon Amazon is already paying for using the roads, since they are by large toll-roads.

xrd 6y ago
I haven't done the math on that kind of infrastructure project. I would be very curious (and open minded) about seeing an analysis of how payment for roads plays out, especially with toll roads. In the Portland, OR area (where I live) there are zero toll roads. Maybe that's why I am biased to feeling like state funding these projects is necessary. If Amazon (and anyone else that uses them) were paying for them, perhaps I would think differently.
- roamerz 6y ago
  The roads in Oregon are paid by a fuel and or license tax. Thus everyone that uses them weather it be commercial or personal pays for them not the state. When you consider the recently failed joint OR-Wa bridge project you get to see what happens when state bureaucracy is in control.
  - xrd 6y ago
    That's a good point. But, isn't it necessary to have the state instituting those taxes? Gas is much cheaper in other states, I wonder how they pay for the same roads. I actually always viewed the failure of the bridge project as a sign that people won over bureaucrats. I felt like it would add a lot of traffic congestion and not solve problems the right way. I would like to read more about what you are suggesting, do you have any links that speak to your viewpoint?