4 ms·

Won't this end up like email, though? Sure, anyone can set up their own business... however, 90% of people will be on a few large providers, and those providers

Won't this end up like email, though? Sure, anyone can set up their own business... however, 90% of people will be on a few large providers, and those providers will end up blocking transactions coming from unknown new providers (to prevent scams). Decentralization doesn't stop consolidation.

seibelj 6y ago
It is much easier to set up your own cryptocurrency wallet than it is to set up your own trusted email server. Your metaphor is similar but off by a large amount. The major difference is that blockchain deals primarily with money, so email spam (useless worthless messages) is inherently less worthy of sending because doing so actually pays me, in addition to the fees you pay the network.
- Klinky 6y ago
  It's not that easy to setup your own wallet. Most require you to download the entire blockchain if you want to be completely independent of a third-party.
  - boring_twenties 6y ago
    What's not easy about downloading the blockchain? All you need is to have enough free space, press the button, and wait a while.
    - Klinky 6y ago
      Bitcoin is around 270GB. Monero is around 64GB. These aren't trivial downloads, and then you'll need to leave the wallet running to stay in sync or you'll have lengthy waits while it catches up the next time you run. Most people can open a credit card or bank account in 30 minutes or less. Waiting a week for a blockchain to download is a non-starter for most.
      - boring_twenties 6y ago
        Actually, it's over 300GB for Bitcoin and almost 85GB for Monero today. Regardless of that, I recently synced Monero from scratch in 3 hours, over a 802.11n network that never seems to do better than ~75Mbps. We can extrapolate that Bitcoin would be done in something like 9.5 hours. So I don't know where you got a week from. If you still don't like that, you can always use a remote node, in which case you can begin using a new account literally immediately, even better than your 30 minutes at a bank. IMHO that is a perfectly fine tradeoff for a new user who doesn't want to commit to syncing the blockchain. Nevertheless, when I deal with new, non-technical users in the Monero community, I find that they almost always prefer to run their own fully synced node, even though they understand the tradeoff (i.e., that using a remote node is probably fine). I even had a guy that has no computer, phone only, looking for help on setting up a full node on his phone. Anecdotal perhaps, but it certainly makes me skeptical of the claim that blockchain size is a big hurdle for many people at all. Oh yeah, and just for completeness: you can prune the blockchain with both Bitcoin and Monero if storage space is a concern, reducing it by something like 70%.
        Klinky 6y ago
        Using any third-party removes the benefit of not using a third-party. Also I'd test your speed report, but ultimately I don't want waste 300GB or 85GB of my monthly download cap on that experiment. In the past download was slow and CPU usage was high while syncing. I don't see people running to devote a large portion of their internal storage or download cap for crypto, unless they are crypto enthusiasts.
        boring_twenties 6y ago
        > Using any third-party removes the benefit of not using a third-party. No, it doesn't. Why would you make such an absurd statement? Using a remote node is nothing like using a centralized payment processor. For one thing, they can't gain access to your funds. For another, there are thousands that you can use interchangeably.
        6y ago
- jefftk 6y ago
  It used to be pretty easy to run your own email server, back when a lot of people did it. If someone is worried about a future where most cryptocurrency runs through a small number of providers, as email does today, I don't think they should find your comparison heartening.
  - seibelj 6y ago
    I see what you are saying, I know SMTP fairly well, used to run my own server, and looked fairly deeply at DKIM / SPF / DMARC. However I also know blockchain protocols intimately, and I can say with certainty that the Bitcoin protocol and SMTP are completely different (as well as Ethereum, Monero, Stellar, Ripple, EOS, Tron, and on and on). It is just a completely different thing. If you are worried about other wallets not accepting "my" wallet, as is the typical problem with hosting your own email, you don't need to worry. Money is money, if I receive it I receive it. It's just completely different from receiving a text-based message like the wide-open and free SMTP is.
Sebb767 6y ago
Sure, but even with E-Mail there are a lot of smaller service providers. It's not _ideal_, yes, but the situation is at least a tad better and one failing company will not destroy the whole ecosystem.

seibelj 6y ago

It is much easier to set up your own cryptocurrency wallet than it is to set up your own trusted email server. Your metaphor is similar but off by a large amount. The major difference is that blockchain deals primarily with money, so email spam (useless worthless messages) is inherently less worthy of sending because doing so actually pays me, in addition to the fees you pay the network.

Klinky 6y ago
It's not that easy to setup your own wallet. Most require you to download the entire blockchain if you want to be completely independent of a third-party.
- boring_twenties 6y ago
  What's not easy about downloading the blockchain? All you need is to have enough free space, press the button, and wait a while.
  - Klinky 6y ago
    Bitcoin is around 270GB. Monero is around 64GB. These aren't trivial downloads, and then you'll need to leave the wallet running to stay in sync or you'll have lengthy waits while it catches up the next time you run. Most people can open a credit card or bank account in 30 minutes or less. Waiting a week for a blockchain to download is a non-starter for most.
    - boring_twenties 6y ago
      Actually, it's over 300GB for Bitcoin and almost 85GB for Monero today. Regardless of that, I recently synced Monero from scratch in 3 hours, over a 802.11n network that never seems to do better than ~75Mbps. We can extrapolate that Bitcoin would be done in something like 9.5 hours. So I don't know where you got a week from. If you still don't like that, you can always use a remote node, in which case you can begin using a new account literally immediately, even better than your 30 minutes at a bank. IMHO that is a perfectly fine tradeoff for a new user who doesn't want to commit to syncing the blockchain. Nevertheless, when I deal with new, non-technical users in the Monero community, I find that they almost always prefer to run their own fully synced node, even though they understand the tradeoff (i.e., that using a remote node is probably fine). I even had a guy that has no computer, phone only, looking for help on setting up a full node on his phone. Anecdotal perhaps, but it certainly makes me skeptical of the claim that blockchain size is a big hurdle for many people at all. Oh yeah, and just for completeness: you can prune the blockchain with both Bitcoin and Monero if storage space is a concern, reducing it by something like 70%.
      - Klinky 6y ago
        Using any third-party removes the benefit of not using a third-party. Also I'd test your speed report, but ultimately I don't want waste 300GB or 85GB of my monthly download cap on that experiment. In the past download was slow and CPU usage was high while syncing. I don't see people running to devote a large portion of their internal storage or download cap for crypto, unless they are crypto enthusiasts.
        boring_twenties 6y ago
        > Using any third-party removes the benefit of not using a third-party. No, it doesn't. Why would you make such an absurd statement? Using a remote node is nothing like using a centralized payment processor. For one thing, they can't gain access to your funds. For another, there are thousands that you can use interchangeably.
        6y ago
jefftk 6y ago
It used to be pretty easy to run your own email server, back when a lot of people did it. If someone is worried about a future where most cryptocurrency runs through a small number of providers, as email does today, I don't think they should find your comparison heartening.
- seibelj 6y ago
  I see what you are saying, I know SMTP fairly well, used to run my own server, and looked fairly deeply at DKIM / SPF / DMARC. However I also know blockchain protocols intimately, and I can say with certainty that the Bitcoin protocol and SMTP are completely different (as well as Ethereum, Monero, Stellar, Ripple, EOS, Tron, and on and on). It is just a completely different thing. If you are worried about other wallets not accepting "my" wallet, as is the typical problem with hosting your own email, you don't need to worry. Money is money, if I receive it I receive it. It's just completely different from receiving a text-based message like the wide-open and free SMTP is.

Sebb767 6y ago

Sure, but even with E-Mail there are a lot of smaller service providers. It's not _ideal_, yes, but the situation is at least a tad better and one failing company will not destroy the whole ecosystem.