4 ms·

Did Einstein say that?: Testing content vs. context in quotations (2017)

25 points by samclemens 6y ago

stepstop 6y ago
I have fallen into some incredible quotation-source searching a few times, spending hours looking through old scans of documents that only exist in archives. But when I think I find the original author, I'm astounded how some people can prove that even those are a paraphrase of a more ancient example. And then you have sites like https://quoteinvestigator.com/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/ What are some of the tricks in quotation investigation?
- GuB-42 6y ago
  Isn't it possible that quotes have simply been rediscovered many times? There are billions of people on earth, and we all have witty things to say. And inspirational quotes don't carry much information, so many people are bound to say the same thing, especially if you consider the meaning instead of the literal formulation. The same thing happens with jokes, especially puns. For example, try making a joke on someone's name. Even if you just made it up, there is a high chance that the person in question have already heard it.
  - wavegeek 6y ago
    > there is a high chance that the person in question have already heard it. This is so true. I speak as someone whose name prompts an obvious joke. People think they are so clever and witty, having come up with something I have heard hundreds of times before.
  - hiccuphippo 6y ago
    A simple example for this is all the equivalent proverbs that exist in different languages which are not translations of one another. Edit: an example is "venturing into the lion's den" in Spanish is "falling into the wolf's mouth" (Ir a caer en la boca del lobo).
reedwolf 6y ago
I've always been fascinated by these misattributions of wise/witty sayings to famous figures. The words aren't allowed to stand on their own, they have to be vouched for by a suitably impressive and high status person. My favorite is how, even in the realm of conspiracies that Shakespeare didn't write his plays, the posited true author is invariably another famous Elizabethan personality, e.g. Francis Bacon. God forbid the Shakespeare plays were actually written by some random nobody.
- leephillips 6y ago
  I have a theory of “quotation attraction”. It explains my observations that a good saying from someone relatively obscure often gets misattributed to someone more famous, especially someone witty such as Dorothy Parker. Any famous, witty person will have a bunch of cool quotations attiributed to her that were actually said by someone else.
- garbagetime 6y ago
  >My favorite is how, even in the realm of conspiracies that Shakespeare didn't write his plays, the posited true author is invariably another famous Elizabethan personality, e.g. Francis Bacon. Counter-example: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/amelia-bassano-william-shakespeare/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/amelia-bassano-william-sha...
- JadeNB 6y ago
  > My favorite is how, even in the realm of conspiracies that Shakespeare didn't write his plays, the posited true author is invariably another famous Elizabethan personality, e.g. Francis Bacon. Surely, if such conspiracy theorising is to be anything other than random guessing, one needs some sort of corpus of the proposed author's work to which to compare. It's probably less than people don't think that a nobody could have written them than that there's no reasonable way to test that hypothesis.
FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
Likely more misattributed quotes go to Mark Twain than any other person to ever exist. Examples: https://newengland.com/today/living/humor/mark-twain-didnt-say-that-incorrect-quotes/ https://newengland.com/today/living/humor/mark-twain-didnt-s...
wavegeek 6y ago
"Quotations allegedly of me on the internet are rarely legitimate" AlbertEinstein.
- a1369209993 6y ago
  85% of quotes on the internet are made up. - Abraham Lincoln, probably underestimating the percentage considerably.
mellow2020 6y ago
Sorry to "hijack" this, but I wonder if someone can either debunk this being by Rosa Luxemburg, or give me a pointer towards a source? I love this quote, but I'm skeptical to say the least. My dear, Have you noticed how those who move, move fast? And those who don’t, just stand still; motionless? Yes, you can go ahead and rant to me about how an object in motion stays in motion, and how an object at rest stays at rest. But, I think there’s more to this than physics. I think those in motion have seen something the others have not; their imprisonment. While those who do not move, do not notice their chains. Truly yours, Rosa Luxemburg
- sparky_z 6y ago
  A great source for this sort of question is Wikiquote. It classifies the quote as "misattributed"[0], and says that it "appears to be something Luxemburg could have said or written, but searches for a source have been unsuccessful". It cites this page[1] as evidence. [0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg#Misattributed https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg#Misattributed [1] https://librarianshipwreck.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/reference-desk-unanswered-questions/ https://librarianshipwreck.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/referenc...

25 points by samclemens 6y ago

I have fallen into some incredible quotation-source searching a few times, spending hours looking through old scans of documents that only exist in archives. But when I think I find the original author, I'm astounded how some people can prove that even those are a paraphrase of a more ancient example. And then you have sites like https://quoteinvestigator.com/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/ What are some of the tricks in quotation investigation?

GuB-42 6y ago
Isn't it possible that quotes have simply been rediscovered many times? There are billions of people on earth, and we all have witty things to say. And inspirational quotes don't carry much information, so many people are bound to say the same thing, especially if you consider the meaning instead of the literal formulation. The same thing happens with jokes, especially puns. For example, try making a joke on someone's name. Even if you just made it up, there is a high chance that the person in question have already heard it.
- wavegeek 6y ago
  > there is a high chance that the person in question have already heard it. This is so true. I speak as someone whose name prompts an obvious joke. People think they are so clever and witty, having come up with something I have heard hundreds of times before.
- hiccuphippo 6y ago
  A simple example for this is all the equivalent proverbs that exist in different languages which are not translations of one another. Edit: an example is "venturing into the lion's den" in Spanish is "falling into the wolf's mouth" (Ir a caer en la boca del lobo).

reedwolf 6y ago

I've always been fascinated by these misattributions of wise/witty sayings to famous figures. The words aren't allowed to stand on their own, they have to be vouched for by a suitably impressive and high status person. My favorite is how, even in the realm of conspiracies that Shakespeare didn't write his plays, the posited true author is invariably another famous Elizabethan personality, e.g. Francis Bacon. God forbid the Shakespeare plays were actually written by some random nobody.

leephillips 6y ago
I have a theory of “quotation attraction”. It explains my observations that a good saying from someone relatively obscure often gets misattributed to someone more famous, especially someone witty such as Dorothy Parker. Any famous, witty person will have a bunch of cool quotations attiributed to her that were actually said by someone else.
garbagetime 6y ago
>My favorite is how, even in the realm of conspiracies that Shakespeare didn't write his plays, the posited true author is invariably another famous Elizabethan personality, e.g. Francis Bacon. Counter-example: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/amelia-bassano-william-shakespeare/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/amelia-bassano-william-sha...
JadeNB 6y ago
> My favorite is how, even in the realm of conspiracies that Shakespeare didn't write his plays, the posited true author is invariably another famous Elizabethan personality, e.g. Francis Bacon. Surely, if such conspiracy theorising is to be anything other than random guessing, one needs some sort of corpus of the proposed author's work to which to compare. It's probably less than people don't think that a nobody could have written them than that there's no reasonable way to test that hypothesis.

FlyMoreRockets 6y ago

Likely more misattributed quotes go to Mark Twain than any other person to ever exist. Examples: https://newengland.com/today/living/humor/mark-twain-didnt-say-that-incorrect-quotes/ https://newengland.com/today/living/humor/mark-twain-didnt-s...

wavegeek 6y ago

"Quotations allegedly of me on the internet are rarely legitimate" AlbertEinstein.

a1369209993 6y ago
85% of quotes on the internet are made up. - Abraham Lincoln, probably underestimating the percentage considerably.

mellow2020 6y ago

Sorry to "hijack" this, but I wonder if someone can either debunk this being by Rosa Luxemburg, or give me a pointer towards a source? I love this quote, but I'm skeptical to say the least. My dear, Have you noticed how those who move, move fast? And those who don’t, just stand still; motionless? Yes, you can go ahead and rant to me about how an object in motion stays in motion, and how an object at rest stays at rest. But, I think there’s more to this than physics. I think those in motion have seen something the others have not; their imprisonment. While those who do not move, do not notice their chains. Truly yours, Rosa Luxemburg

sparky_z 6y ago
A great source for this sort of question is Wikiquote. It classifies the quote as "misattributed"[0], and says that it "appears to be something Luxemburg could have said or written, but searches for a source have been unsuccessful". It cites this page[1] as evidence. [0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg#Misattributed https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg#Misattributed [1] https://librarianshipwreck.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/reference-desk-unanswered-questions/ https://librarianshipwreck.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/referenc...