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I have the ubports version of the pine64 and it is still pretty rough around the edges but the phone itself is very solid. It was recently announced that there

I have the ubports version of the pine64 and it is still pretty rough around the edges but the phone itself is very solid. It was recently announced that there was an issue with the usb-c port preventing it from being able to correctly negotiate with devices, but they have already worked out a fix [1] which I have carried out on my device and can confirm that usb is now working. Furthermore they are working with makerspaces to help people find someone who can do the soldering if they are not able. Coincidentally, they also announced a soldering iron called the 'Pinecil'[2] which is based on the venerable TS100 but with a risc-v microprocessor running freertos for $25. [1] https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php?title=PinePhone_v1.1_-_Braveheart#USB-C_CC_pins_are_pulled_to_the_GND_by_AW3512_.28VCONN_switches.29_when_VCONN_is_off https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php?title=PinePhone_v1.1_-_Bra... [2] https://www.pine64.org/2020/07/15/july-updatepmos-ce-pre-orders-and-new-pinephone-version/ https://www.pine64.org/2020/07/15/july-updatepmos-ce-pre-ord...

TekMol 6y ago
How long does your battery last? I have heard it drains very quickly?
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  This was a thing before the crust firmware was implemented. With crust it should last up to 24hrs and when you disable the modem up to 100hrs.
  - OneLeggedCat 6y ago
    Wow. That modem is a hog. Do you know if there is still room for it to be optimized, or is this about as good as it will get?
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      Not sure, but given that this work is extremely recent my bet would be that there's some room for optimiztion still, but probably not anywhere close to the 100hrs mark. My guess would be the modem is the most power hungry component of practically any smartphone and 24hrs is already in line with mainstream smartphones so any additional % squeezed would be amazing indeed. EDIT: Maybe 90hrs? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23852043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23852043
    - MartijnBraam 6y ago
      I'm not entirely sure if modem sleep was used in that 24 hours calculation.
      - megous 6y ago
        I'm pretty sure it was not. Modem in sleep, according to datasheet, consumes ~10mW. Current state of the art power consumption of the whole phone without the modem on at all is 110mW. (this is the value on which the 100h figure is based on) So when the modem will be actually in sleep, it will not add much to the equation.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      Well actually looks like I was way too conservative with my original comment, apparently lots could be done: "The current thing on my radar is writing a power manager for the modem. :) That will improve the standby from 24h with the modem active to ~90h." [1] 1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23852043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23852043
      - OneLeggedCat 6y ago
        Neat. I had no idea it could improve that much.
  - hellcow 6y ago
    Amazing. That's 4x what I get on a Pixel 3. :)
    - hpfr 6y ago
      Standby, not screen-on time
      - mavhc 6y ago
        When I first bought a Moto G3 for my dad, before I got a sim for it, or connected it to wifi, I left it on, it lasted a week
- osamagirl69 6y ago
  Lasts about a day, but there are further software fixes on the way to enable lower power states. Really excited to get usb host working, pecking away at the touchscreen (with no haptic feedback yet!) was getting very old very quick.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- blihp 6y ago
  The first night I had it, running UBports OTA-4 (the latest at the time), I charged it up to 100% and roughly 12 hours later it was <30% with the modem disabled. Battery life is not anywhere near what you're used to on Android or iOS because in addition to SoC suspend functionality, the wireless/cellular drivers also need work re: sleep.
AsyncAwait 6y ago
Worth noting that there are other distros which seem to be further ahead as of now than UBPorts is, for example Mobian[1]. They recently got even the camera up and running. 1 - https://mobian-project.org https://mobian-project.org
- zozbot234 6y ago
  Mobian is especially interesting because its work might go upstream into Debian. Being able to run pure Debian on a phone would make it even more of a Universal Operating System.
  - gcbw3 6y ago
    > more of a Universal Operating System. not to say more trusted.
    - ta17711771 6y ago
      Or secure.
- qchris 6y ago
  I own the Pinephone UBports CE, which I've run UBports, postmarketOS, and currently have Mobian installed. Mobian is definitely my favorite of the three so far. Set-up was really easy, I'm perfectly okay with the Phosh UI, and being able to do package management with `apt` vs. `apk` is huge, since I'm much more familiar with Debian's setup than Alpine's. It didn't seem like something that would matter a bunch, but it's ended up being a big quality-of-experience improvement for me. Documentation seemed better for Mobian too, and getting everything set-up was very easy (user set-up vs. the pmOS "demo" user). Plus, at least the image of pmOS I had (about two weeks ago fresh .img file, plus regular updates), Firefox support wasn't great because of auto-scaling vs. the Firefox ESR on Mobian that just works. Like, open it up, log into my Firefox account, then start playing a Youtube video with zero tinkering just-works. I ended up calling a family member across the country and talking with them for about 10 minutes soon afterwards as well, with no issues. Plus, I was able to SSH into it from my laptop and build/run a Rust binary. On a phone. That was quite a fun moment. Still definitely a beta, but for me it's the closest to a daily driver of the three. I don't see myself switching back to pmOS or UBports unless they suddenly make a huge leap.
bhhaskin 6y ago
Looking at those updates the pinecube looks pretty sweet! I was thinking about trying to create a security camera using pi zeros, but he cube looks way more cost effective and has pretty much everything I could want!
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  Yeah, PoE power on a camera that cheap is a huge deal. I could afford to paste these suckers all over the place.
  - mavhc 6y ago
    Says it's passive PoE though
- Ruthalas 6y ago
  What is the price of the Cube? It isn't yet listed as available on their site.
  - bhhaskin 6y ago
    In the update the estimated price is $24.99
    - Ruthalas 6y ago
      That's very competitive with the Raspberry Pi version (which I also was considering).
      - bhhaskin 6y ago
        I would say it comes in cheaper as the pinecube is fully standalone device. Where you would still have to buy the pie on top of the camera.
erinnh 6y ago
It wasnt really 100% clear in the article. Does the USB issue apply to current/new orders from them as well?
- JeremyNT 6y ago
  > It wasnt really 100% clear in the article. Does the USB issue apply to current/new orders from them as well? The new PMOS version gets a new hardware revision, 1.2a, which is when the issue was resolved. The earlier versions (including the Ubports/1.2 and Braveheart/1.1 revisions) both have the issue. I own the 1.2 (ubports edition) version of the phone, and I really want the external display capability, but I've never been any good at soldering something so small! It sounds like there will be some volunteers helping to fix the issue on the earlier versions, if you send them the device, which I very well may do.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
The UBports version of the Pinephone isn’t just rough around the edges – that suggests that it will be a smoother experience one day, but it still needs work. Rather, my impression is that UBports is a dead end technologically. It is based inextricably on some 2014-era Ubuntu-specific software that even Ubuntu moved away from. The experience of SSHing into it, tweaking system configuration, etc. doesn’t feel like the "ordinary desktop Linux on your phone" that everyone was hoping for. As a former Nokia N900 owner, I was solidly disappointed by UBports. I suspect that, for example, the PureOS port to the Pinephone may eventually give users like myself what they are looking for. Luckily, even if your Pinephone is branded for a specific operating system, you can replace that OS with whatever other OS of your choosing.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  The beauty of the PinePhone is that there's literally nothing tying it to UBPorts, I've flashed Mobian[1] on mine an am supper happy with it. The Arch builds are also coming together nicely. [2] 1 - https://mobian-project.org https://mobian-project.org 2 - https://github.com/dreemurrs-embedded/Pine64-Arch/releases https://github.com/dreemurrs-embedded/Pine64-Arch/releases
- blihp 6y ago
  You're right that it doesn't feel like a Linux desktop port which is its primary selling point: doing a mobile-centric Linux. They do seem to have a vision for where they want to go once they get fully updated to the final Canonical release (they are already starting to diverge from Ubuntu Touch with the current release), but it's definitely not going to be for everyone. One nice thing now that I actually have my Pinephone is that I can start seriously exploring and answer the question: 'what do I want in a mobile Linux device and experience?' Which I suspect is the real point of the Pinephone: to stop theorizing and figure out where we want Linux to go on (relatively modern) mobile devices. My biggest complaint right now is the rough state of power management on all the distros. The good news is progress is being made on this front very quickly.
- padraic7a 6y ago
  That's an interesting point. I don't think I would agree that Ubuntu Touch is at a dead end but I think you're right that you won't be able to change everything you want via ssh. You will have to use the GUI for some things. FWIW I think the variety of available operating systems can only be a good thing. There's more going on to attract contributors and presuumably work done on things like drivers can carry over to other OSs.

TekMol 6y ago

How long does your battery last? I have heard it drains very quickly?

AsyncAwait 6y ago
This was a thing before the crust firmware was implemented. With crust it should last up to 24hrs and when you disable the modem up to 100hrs.
- OneLeggedCat 6y ago
  Wow. That modem is a hog. Do you know if there is still room for it to be optimized, or is this about as good as it will get?
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    Not sure, but given that this work is extremely recent my bet would be that there's some room for optimiztion still, but probably not anywhere close to the 100hrs mark. My guess would be the modem is the most power hungry component of practically any smartphone and 24hrs is already in line with mainstream smartphones so any additional % squeezed would be amazing indeed. EDIT: Maybe 90hrs? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23852043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23852043
  - MartijnBraam 6y ago
    I'm not entirely sure if modem sleep was used in that 24 hours calculation.
    - megous 6y ago
      I'm pretty sure it was not. Modem in sleep, according to datasheet, consumes ~10mW. Current state of the art power consumption of the whole phone without the modem on at all is 110mW. (this is the value on which the 100h figure is based on) So when the modem will be actually in sleep, it will not add much to the equation.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    Well actually looks like I was way too conservative with my original comment, apparently lots could be done: "The current thing on my radar is writing a power manager for the modem. :) That will improve the standby from 24h with the modem active to ~90h." [1] 1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23852043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23852043
    - OneLeggedCat 6y ago
      Neat. I had no idea it could improve that much.
- hellcow 6y ago
  Amazing. That's 4x what I get on a Pixel 3. :)
  - hpfr 6y ago
    Standby, not screen-on time
    - mavhc 6y ago
      When I first bought a Moto G3 for my dad, before I got a sim for it, or connected it to wifi, I left it on, it lasted a week
osamagirl69 6y ago
Lasts about a day, but there are further software fixes on the way to enable lower power states. Really excited to get usb host working, pecking away at the touchscreen (with no haptic feedback yet!) was getting very old very quick.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
blihp 6y ago
The first night I had it, running UBports OTA-4 (the latest at the time), I charged it up to 100% and roughly 12 hours later it was <30% with the modem disabled. Battery life is not anywhere near what you're used to on Android or iOS because in addition to SoC suspend functionality, the wireless/cellular drivers also need work re: sleep.

AsyncAwait 6y ago

Worth noting that there are other distros which seem to be further ahead as of now than UBPorts is, for example Mobian[1]. They recently got even the camera up and running. 1 - https://mobian-project.org https://mobian-project.org

zozbot234 6y ago
Mobian is especially interesting because its work might go upstream into Debian. Being able to run pure Debian on a phone would make it even more of a Universal Operating System.
- gcbw3 6y ago
  > more of a Universal Operating System. not to say more trusted.
  - ta17711771 6y ago
    Or secure.
qchris 6y ago
I own the Pinephone UBports CE, which I've run UBports, postmarketOS, and currently have Mobian installed. Mobian is definitely my favorite of the three so far. Set-up was really easy, I'm perfectly okay with the Phosh UI, and being able to do package management with `apt` vs. `apk` is huge, since I'm much more familiar with Debian's setup than Alpine's. It didn't seem like something that would matter a bunch, but it's ended up being a big quality-of-experience improvement for me. Documentation seemed better for Mobian too, and getting everything set-up was very easy (user set-up vs. the pmOS "demo" user). Plus, at least the image of pmOS I had (about two weeks ago fresh .img file, plus regular updates), Firefox support wasn't great because of auto-scaling vs. the Firefox ESR on Mobian that just works. Like, open it up, log into my Firefox account, then start playing a Youtube video with zero tinkering just-works. I ended up calling a family member across the country and talking with them for about 10 minutes soon afterwards as well, with no issues. Plus, I was able to SSH into it from my laptop and build/run a Rust binary. On a phone. That was quite a fun moment. Still definitely a beta, but for me it's the closest to a daily driver of the three. I don't see myself switching back to pmOS or UBports unless they suddenly make a huge leap.

bhhaskin 6y ago

Looking at those updates the pinecube looks pretty sweet! I was thinking about trying to create a security camera using pi zeros, but he cube looks way more cost effective and has pretty much everything I could want!

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
Yeah, PoE power on a camera that cheap is a huge deal. I could afford to paste these suckers all over the place.
- mavhc 6y ago
  Says it's passive PoE though
Ruthalas 6y ago
What is the price of the Cube? It isn't yet listed as available on their site.
- bhhaskin 6y ago
  In the update the estimated price is $24.99
  - Ruthalas 6y ago
    That's very competitive with the Raspberry Pi version (which I also was considering).
    - bhhaskin 6y ago
      I would say it comes in cheaper as the pinecube is fully standalone device. Where you would still have to buy the pie on top of the camera.

erinnh 6y ago

It wasnt really 100% clear in the article. Does the USB issue apply to current/new orders from them as well?

JeremyNT 6y ago
> It wasnt really 100% clear in the article. Does the USB issue apply to current/new orders from them as well? The new PMOS version gets a new hardware revision, 1.2a, which is when the issue was resolved. The earlier versions (including the Ubports/1.2 and Braveheart/1.1 revisions) both have the issue. I own the 1.2 (ubports edition) version of the phone, and I really want the external display capability, but I've never been any good at soldering something so small! It sounds like there will be some volunteers helping to fix the issue on the earlier versions, if you send them the device, which I very well may do.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

The UBports version of the Pinephone isn’t just rough around the edges – that suggests that it will be a smoother experience one day, but it still needs work. Rather, my impression is that UBports is a dead end technologically. It is based inextricably on some 2014-era Ubuntu-specific software that even Ubuntu moved away from. The experience of SSHing into it, tweaking system configuration, etc. doesn’t feel like the "ordinary desktop Linux on your phone" that everyone was hoping for. As a former Nokia N900 owner, I was solidly disappointed by UBports. I suspect that, for example, the PureOS port to the Pinephone may eventually give users like myself what they are looking for. Luckily, even if your Pinephone is branded for a specific operating system, you can replace that OS with whatever other OS of your choosing.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
The beauty of the PinePhone is that there's literally nothing tying it to UBPorts, I've flashed Mobian[1] on mine an am supper happy with it. The Arch builds are also coming together nicely. [2] 1 - https://mobian-project.org https://mobian-project.org 2 - https://github.com/dreemurrs-embedded/Pine64-Arch/releases https://github.com/dreemurrs-embedded/Pine64-Arch/releases
blihp 6y ago
You're right that it doesn't feel like a Linux desktop port which is its primary selling point: doing a mobile-centric Linux. They do seem to have a vision for where they want to go once they get fully updated to the final Canonical release (they are already starting to diverge from Ubuntu Touch with the current release), but it's definitely not going to be for everyone. One nice thing now that I actually have my Pinephone is that I can start seriously exploring and answer the question: 'what do I want in a mobile Linux device and experience?' Which I suspect is the real point of the Pinephone: to stop theorizing and figure out where we want Linux to go on (relatively modern) mobile devices. My biggest complaint right now is the rough state of power management on all the distros. The good news is progress is being made on this front very quickly.
padraic7a 6y ago
That's an interesting point. I don't think I would agree that Ubuntu Touch is at a dead end but I think you're right that you won't be able to change everything you want via ssh. You will have to use the GUI for some things. FWIW I think the variety of available operating systems can only be a good thing. There's more going on to attract contributors and presuumably work done on things like drivers can carry over to other OSs.