4 ms·

If I use the S&P 500 instead (easier calculation given available data for me), the the FANG is a huge portion. (Yes, 5 companies out of 500 are by definition 1/

by MR4D 6y ago

If I use the S&P 500 instead (easier calculation given available data for me), the the FANG is a huge portion. (Yes, 5 companies out of 500 are by definition 1/100.) No argument about headcount, though. Take a look at the second chart (bottom of "Page 1", the third actual page considering the title page and contents page). [0] Revenue may be small, but profits are huge, and market capitalization (aka "wealth") is absolutely massive. And that market cap is what feeds retirement plans & pensions. So while Europe is taxing people, the US is growing profits and wealth. The World Economic Forum had this to say about Europe's tech giants in 2017: "In total more than a third of European tech founders are based in the UK." [1] That doesn't bode well for the future, when your economy is stuck in old industries, and the leader is leaving the party. BTW, hats off to the Finns - not sure what they are doing with gaming, but they punch well above their weight. When it comes to creating wealth, taxation doesn't do anything but redistribute it. In order to actually generate wealth, you need capital, and people who use that capital more efficiently & effectively will become richer. It is a virtuous spiral. And what's important is that every one of those high paying tech jobs is one less low-paying job. Most of the low paying jobs have existed for decades in various industries (esp retail), but most of those tech jobs didn't exist 20 years ago. I can only imagine how many high paying tech jobs there will be in the US in 20 more years, even though I expect low-paying jobs to still outnumber them. [0] - https://www.yardeni.com/pub/yardenifangoverview.pdf https://www.yardeni.com/pub/yardenifangoverview.pdf [1] - https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/meet-europe-top-tech-titans/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/meet-europe-top-tech-...

dmitriid 6y ago
> And that market cap is what feeds retirement plans & pensions. Market cap is a myth based on the fiction that is the share price. > So while Europe is taxing people, the US is growing profits and wealth. Tell that to 23 million Americans who can't afford their next rent, or can't afford to go to the doctor.
discreteevent 6y ago
"Most of the low paying jobs have existed for decades in various industries (esp retail), but most of those tech jobs didn't exist 20 years ago." How many low paying jobs are taken by e.g. a high paying e-commerce job? Hundreds surely. And if there are less low paying jobs you can pay someone less to do them because there are so many people looking for those few jobs.
tsimionescu 6y ago
> When it comes to creating wealth, taxation doesn't do anything but redistribute it. In order to actually generate wealth, you need capital, and people who use that capital more efficiently & effectively will become richer. It is a virtuous spiral. Sure, it's a virtuous spiral if you're one of the minuscule number of people that the spiral is pointing to. Otherwise, you see it for what it is, wealth being siphoned from Us to Them. Also, the level of political control that huge companies almost automatically exert greatly minimizes democracy, leading to things like the bottom 50% of Americans having almost no bearing on the political sphere, at least at the federal and state levels.
- nickpp 6y ago
  All you have to do to become one of "Them" is to buy a stock share. Never has been wealth creation more accessible than today.
  - tsimionescu 6y ago
    Do you actually believe that? How much money will I get from 1 share? How much money would I have to invest before my fortunes actually rise with the real fortunes of any particular company?
    - nickpp 6y ago
      That is the principle and it works. I know countless examples, yes, including me. Not happy with 1 share? Save more, buy more. Want cheaper shares? Found your own company and you’ll have infinite shares for free. You’ll have to make it successful afterwards, though, to raise each share's value up from 0. That’s what "They" did.
      - tsimionescu 6y ago
        > Save more, buy more. > Found your own company and you’ll have infinite shares for free. You seriously misunderstand how little money people at the bottom actually have, and how little access to the kind of credit you'd need to start a business. Like, saving for a car when their old one breaks down will probably take some people months or years. Saving to buy shares???? > That’s what "They" did. A minuscule handful of them, if even that. For every Jack Ma there's a thousand Mark Zuckerbergs or Bill Gatess who were born with a silver spoon and will die with a silver spoon, as will 3 generations of their children at the very least. The descendants of the people who laid the railroad tracks, the large slave plantations, all of these people are the vast majority of the top. Even people like Elon Musk are still coming from a background of pretty high privilege. The people who were born in the bottom 50% that you have ever heard of (outside show-business) can probably be counted on at most a few people's hands.
kbenson 6y ago
One way to encourage those people while also redistributing through taxation would be to reduce or eliminate corporate taxes but increase personal taxes, especially for the wealthy. There would be lots of knock-on effects from this, such as more company perks to offset the large taxation of salary, but there are ways to combat that (tax benefits provided to employees as compensation). This would allow companies more capital to invest in R&D or expansion. Some of that money would go to higher wages (but if you distribute taxes more heavily to the wealthy along with this, it wouldn't affect median employee salary much). A downside (among many, I'm sure) would be even more concentration of wealth in companies which might be used for non-free market operations, such as lobbying. It's all interconnected, so it's complex, but it also doesn't feel like we're in such a good situation socially, economically and politically that we should refrain from making large changes like that.

by MR4D 6y ago

dmitriid 6y ago

> And that market cap is what feeds retirement plans & pensions. Market cap is a myth based on the fiction that is the share price. > So while Europe is taxing people, the US is growing profits and wealth. Tell that to 23 million Americans who can't afford their next rent, or can't afford to go to the doctor.

discreteevent 6y ago

"Most of the low paying jobs have existed for decades in various industries (esp retail), but most of those tech jobs didn't exist 20 years ago." How many low paying jobs are taken by e.g. a high paying e-commerce job? Hundreds surely. And if there are less low paying jobs you can pay someone less to do them because there are so many people looking for those few jobs.

tsimionescu 6y ago

> When it comes to creating wealth, taxation doesn't do anything but redistribute it. In order to actually generate wealth, you need capital, and people who use that capital more efficiently & effectively will become richer. It is a virtuous spiral. Sure, it's a virtuous spiral if you're one of the minuscule number of people that the spiral is pointing to. Otherwise, you see it for what it is, wealth being siphoned from Us to Them. Also, the level of political control that huge companies almost automatically exert greatly minimizes democracy, leading to things like the bottom 50% of Americans having almost no bearing on the political sphere, at least at the federal and state levels.

nickpp 6y ago
All you have to do to become one of "Them" is to buy a stock share. Never has been wealth creation more accessible than today.
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  Do you actually believe that? How much money will I get from 1 share? How much money would I have to invest before my fortunes actually rise with the real fortunes of any particular company?
  - nickpp 6y ago
    That is the principle and it works. I know countless examples, yes, including me. Not happy with 1 share? Save more, buy more. Want cheaper shares? Found your own company and you’ll have infinite shares for free. You’ll have to make it successful afterwards, though, to raise each share's value up from 0. That’s what "They" did.
    - tsimionescu 6y ago
      > Save more, buy more. > Found your own company and you’ll have infinite shares for free. You seriously misunderstand how little money people at the bottom actually have, and how little access to the kind of credit you'd need to start a business. Like, saving for a car when their old one breaks down will probably take some people months or years. Saving to buy shares???? > That’s what "They" did. A minuscule handful of them, if even that. For every Jack Ma there's a thousand Mark Zuckerbergs or Bill Gatess who were born with a silver spoon and will die with a silver spoon, as will 3 generations of their children at the very least. The descendants of the people who laid the railroad tracks, the large slave plantations, all of these people are the vast majority of the top. Even people like Elon Musk are still coming from a background of pretty high privilege. The people who were born in the bottom 50% that you have ever heard of (outside show-business) can probably be counted on at most a few people's hands.

kbenson 6y ago

One way to encourage those people while also redistributing through taxation would be to reduce or eliminate corporate taxes but increase personal taxes, especially for the wealthy. There would be lots of knock-on effects from this, such as more company perks to offset the large taxation of salary, but there are ways to combat that (tax benefits provided to employees as compensation). This would allow companies more capital to invest in R&D or expansion. Some of that money would go to higher wages (but if you distribute taxes more heavily to the wealthy along with this, it wouldn't affect median employee salary much). A downside (among many, I'm sure) would be even more concentration of wealth in companies which might be used for non-free market operations, such as lobbying. It's all interconnected, so it's complex, but it also doesn't feel like we're in such a good situation socially, economically and politically that we should refrain from making large changes like that.