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What is going on with Outlook for Windows? For years, it froze its entire UI whenever there was some network lag on the IMAP server, and the recent improvements

by hs86 6y ago

What is going on with Outlook for Windows? For years, it froze its entire UI whenever there was some network lag on the IMAP server, and the recent improvements for Outlook strangely focus only on their Mac, web, and mobile versions. Does the Windows version still have a future? It seems to be stuck in some maintenance limbo.

sebazzz 6y ago
I think it is probably a very large program but does have some legacy cruft they probably can't fix easily. Either because backwards compatibility for COM or due to that if you rewrite something to be async the callers also need to be async and callee need to be non-blocking[0]. However, Outlook is very much actively developed and myself being a Premium user am receiving new features now and then, like UI refreshes etc. [0] http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/what-color-is-your-function/ http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/what-color-is-y...
cosmie 6y ago
If you look at the release notes[1], Outlook for Windows is getting a lot of love too. The majority of updates are performance and bug fixes, but the UI issue you mentioned highlights the need for this type of TLC in the Windows client. That said, the frequency you receive these will be pretty dependent on which release cycle your install is set up for, as it can range from monthly to semi-annually. The Mac, web, and mobile versions are getting a whole lot of feature releases in comparison to the Windows client, but virtually all of them are intended to bring those other clients to feature parity with the Windows client. I've interpreted this as more of Microsoft treating these alternate platforms as first-class citizens finally, rather than as neglect of the Windows clients. This also isn't limited to just the Outlook client - it's a trend across the entire Office suite. For example, Power Query[2] is a really neat and powerful ETL system hiding within Excel (as well as used in PowerBI, and originating in SQL Server Analysis Services). It's been available for years in Excel for Windows, but only recently became usable on Excel for Mac thanks to a major refactor[3] to port it to .NET Core and strip out Windows dependencies. Eventually this will reach feature parity with and replace the legacy Power Query code in the Windows Excel client, then all net new development will be cross-platform and available on both clients simultaneously. All things considered, I view the resource allocation across the platforms as a positive. Presuming the feature development happening for the non-Windows clients are as similarly cross-platform as the Power Query effort, it'll eventually lead to cleaned up Windows clients with decades of legacy cruft refactored out, feature parity and consistency across platforms, and substantially greater velocity as those resources currently split between platforms eventually consolidate and focus on a unified, cross-platform, and cleaned up codebase. And if the refactors continue to prioritize .NET Core, it also bodes well for an official Linux client eventually. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/officeupdates/semi-annual-enterprise-channel https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/officeupdates/semi-annual-e... [2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/power-query/power-query-what-is-power-query https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/power-query/power-query-wha... [3] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/using-net-core-to-provide-power-query-for-excel-on-mac/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/using-net-core-to-prov...
- techntoke 6y ago
  Windows 10 gets a lot of love too. So much that updates often brick the entire install and deletes files and folders.
muststopmyths 6y ago
Windows is a second-class citizen in the new Microsoft. You only have to use it regularly to understand that.
Steltek 6y ago
Mac/Web/Mobile all lag behind native Outlook for Windows. If they're getting extra love, it's because they need it.
alkonaut 6y ago
It still freezes (as in says “not responding) for ten seconds when I type the first character in the search/filter box above the email list. How does something like that to pass through testing? Something that scales with mailbox size, network latency or similar is happening on the UI thread in Microsoft Outlook. This boggles my mind every time it happens, which is every day. Something tells me Outlook is a huge pile of legacy C++ that no one dares rewrite any major part of even in the face of issues like this.

by hs86 6y ago

sebazzz 6y ago

I think it is probably a very large program but does have some legacy cruft they probably can't fix easily. Either because backwards compatibility for COM or due to that if you rewrite something to be async the callers also need to be async and callee need to be non-blocking[0]. However, Outlook is very much actively developed and myself being a Premium user am receiving new features now and then, like UI refreshes etc. [0] http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/what-color-is-your-function/ http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/what-color-is-y...

cosmie 6y ago

If you look at the release notes[1], Outlook for Windows is getting a lot of love too. The majority of updates are performance and bug fixes, but the UI issue you mentioned highlights the need for this type of TLC in the Windows client. That said, the frequency you receive these will be pretty dependent on which release cycle your install is set up for, as it can range from monthly to semi-annually. The Mac, web, and mobile versions are getting a whole lot of feature releases in comparison to the Windows client, but virtually all of them are intended to bring those other clients to feature parity with the Windows client. I've interpreted this as more of Microsoft treating these alternate platforms as first-class citizens finally, rather than as neglect of the Windows clients. This also isn't limited to just the Outlook client - it's a trend across the entire Office suite. For example, Power Query[2] is a really neat and powerful ETL system hiding within Excel (as well as used in PowerBI, and originating in SQL Server Analysis Services). It's been available for years in Excel for Windows, but only recently became usable on Excel for Mac thanks to a major refactor[3] to port it to .NET Core and strip out Windows dependencies. Eventually this will reach feature parity with and replace the legacy Power Query code in the Windows Excel client, then all net new development will be cross-platform and available on both clients simultaneously. All things considered, I view the resource allocation across the platforms as a positive. Presuming the feature development happening for the non-Windows clients are as similarly cross-platform as the Power Query effort, it'll eventually lead to cleaned up Windows clients with decades of legacy cruft refactored out, feature parity and consistency across platforms, and substantially greater velocity as those resources currently split between platforms eventually consolidate and focus on a unified, cross-platform, and cleaned up codebase. And if the refactors continue to prioritize .NET Core, it also bodes well for an official Linux client eventually. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/officeupdates/semi-annual-enterprise-channel https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/officeupdates/semi-annual-e... [2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/power-query/power-query-what-is-power-query https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/power-query/power-query-wha... [3] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/using-net-core-to-provide-power-query-for-excel-on-mac/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/using-net-core-to-prov...

techntoke 6y ago
Windows 10 gets a lot of love too. So much that updates often brick the entire install and deletes files and folders.

muststopmyths 6y ago

Windows is a second-class citizen in the new Microsoft. You only have to use it regularly to understand that.

Steltek 6y ago

Mac/Web/Mobile all lag behind native Outlook for Windows. If they're getting extra love, it's because they need it.

alkonaut 6y ago

It still freezes (as in says “not responding) for ten seconds when I type the first character in the search/filter box above the email list. How does something like that to pass through testing? Something that scales with mailbox size, network latency or similar is happening on the UI thread in Microsoft Outlook. This boggles my mind every time it happens, which is every day. Something tells me Outlook is a huge pile of legacy C++ that no one dares rewrite any major part of even in the face of issues like this.