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This article is misleading. You can NOT replace nuclear with wind and solar. Because you can't choose when the sun shines and when the wind blows. Hydro in Fr

by joss82 6y ago

This article is misleading. You can NOT replace nuclear with wind and solar. Because you can't choose when the sun shines and when the wind blows. Hydro in France is already built-up everywhere it was feasible. There are no more spots to build meaningful hydro power capacity. Too bad since hydro is the only renewable that can really replace the nuclear power plants.

FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
> Because you can't choose when the sun shines and when the wind blows. This is a terrible argument. There is always some place on the grid where the wind is blowing and (during the day) the sun is shining.
- seszett 6y ago
  That's far from guaranteed. It's very possible to have little wind over a large area, larger than France even, during the night.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    And the same for solar. There are several hours every day when the sun is shining nowhere on (Metropolitan) France.
    - joss82 6y ago
      Especially during the night :)
  - FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
    Do you have any actual numbers to back these claims up?
    - steeve 6y ago
      Yes, at Europe scale: https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY in French
- steeve 6y ago
  This has been demonstrated to be false, unfortunately. See https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY (in french though)
dv_dt 6y ago
At least with studies on the Australian grid, it seems like the need for "baseload" sources is myth fueled mostly by resistance to upgrading to renewable sources. https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/baseload-energy-generation-expose-myth/ https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/baseload-ene...
- meroje 6y ago
  There's a lot of "could" and "will need to change" there, don't see hard facts proving a myth.
- belorn 6y ago
  That seems good, as then we can set a date when fossil fueled power plans should be banned and only renewable sources will be allowed. I recommend 2030.
cure 6y ago
> You can NOT replace nuclear with wind and solar. Because you can't choose when the sun shines and when the wind blows. That's what grid energy storage is for. Traditionally this is often implemented with hydro (sometimes even by pumping water up to a high-altitude reservoir during periods of excess power generation). There are many more exotic methods as well - e.g. the crane that stacks concrete blocks, or the train with concrete that goes up and down the hill. More recently, grid-scale batteries are being installed at increasing scale (e.g. Tesla's Megapack), and the cost efficiency of that solution seems to be improving rapidly.
- steeve 6y ago
  If you run the numbers, you’ll see that we are several orders of magnitude away from having anything close to the scale of energy storage needed unfortunately
  - funcDropShadow 6y ago
    Extending the grid transport capacity, allows you to transport the energy from the place where is currently blowing to the place where it is neaded. That, reduces the need to store power.
    - steeve 6y ago
      This has been demonstrated to be false at the Europe scale, unfortunately. See https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY (in french though) In a nutshell, either there's wind everywhere, or not.

by joss82 6y ago

FlyMoreRockets 6y ago

> Because you can't choose when the sun shines and when the wind blows. This is a terrible argument. There is always some place on the grid where the wind is blowing and (during the day) the sun is shining.

seszett 6y ago
That's far from guaranteed. It's very possible to have little wind over a large area, larger than France even, during the night.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  And the same for solar. There are several hours every day when the sun is shining nowhere on (Metropolitan) France.
  - joss82 6y ago
    Especially during the night :)
- FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
  Do you have any actual numbers to back these claims up?
  - steeve 6y ago
    Yes, at Europe scale: https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY in French
steeve 6y ago
This has been demonstrated to be false, unfortunately. See https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY (in french though)

dv_dt 6y ago

At least with studies on the Australian grid, it seems like the need for "baseload" sources is myth fueled mostly by resistance to upgrading to renewable sources. https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/baseload-energy-generation-expose-myth/ https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/baseload-ene...

meroje 6y ago
There's a lot of "could" and "will need to change" there, don't see hard facts proving a myth.
belorn 6y ago
That seems good, as then we can set a date when fossil fueled power plans should be banned and only renewable sources will be allowed. I recommend 2030.

cure 6y ago

> You can NOT replace nuclear with wind and solar. Because you can't choose when the sun shines and when the wind blows. That's what grid energy storage is for. Traditionally this is often implemented with hydro (sometimes even by pumping water up to a high-altitude reservoir during periods of excess power generation). There are many more exotic methods as well - e.g. the crane that stacks concrete blocks, or the train with concrete that goes up and down the hill. More recently, grid-scale batteries are being installed at increasing scale (e.g. Tesla's Megapack), and the cost efficiency of that solution seems to be improving rapidly.

steeve 6y ago
If you run the numbers, you’ll see that we are several orders of magnitude away from having anything close to the scale of energy storage needed unfortunately
- funcDropShadow 6y ago
  Extending the grid transport capacity, allows you to transport the energy from the place where is currently blowing to the place where it is neaded. That, reduces the need to store power.
  - steeve 6y ago
    This has been demonstrated to be false at the Europe scale, unfortunately. See https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY https://youtu.be/1aCHN6dytVY (in french though) In a nutshell, either there's wind everywhere, or not.