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> That and debate gave me the ability to just start a sentence without knowing where it will end and then talk my way to a conclusion that sounds like it makes

> That and debate gave me the ability to just start a sentence without knowing where it will end and then talk my way to a conclusion that sounds like it makes sense You're effectively advocating for more bullshit. The problem is that this works in the first place - we shouldn't be rewarding it.

ipnon 6y ago
We can't expect everyone utterance to be rational and logical. We're all just human at the end of the day. We should expect job candidates to try their best to get the job.
- eckza 6y ago
  Yes we can! We’re computer programmers. Everything can and must be quantified. /s
kritiko 6y ago
What's the point of asking these sorts of questions? Typically to try to get a sense of how somebody thinks and what sort of rapport they have with the interviewer while problem solving, not that they get to the "correct" answer. I think they have some utility because this is a common occurrence when dealing with clients.
- TheTruestKyle 6y ago
  I call this a lie. We lie to play games to attempt to get inside someone's head. Sounds like armchair psychology to create some sense of "culture"
MattGaiser 6y ago
He isn’t advocating it. He is just saying that you must play the system as it is.
- maxwindiff 6y ago
  I don't know if he is really advocating it, but I absolutely support the notion that programmers should learn to bullshit better.
commandlinefan 6y ago
I'm not sure he's advocating for it, just pointing out that it's true.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  > My takeaway, I guess—parents, make your kids do debate! He's encouraging parents to make their kids learn this skillset. He is absolutely advocating for it.
  - sequoia 6y ago
    He's saying "this makes you more likely to win at the game, perhaps you want to teach your kids this skill so they can win." He is not saying "the game is fair."
  - xenihn 6y ago
    That is absolutely not the same thing. You have to play the game by the rules, that user is just telling you how to win.
  - swyx 6y ago
    don't hate the player, hate the game. easier to tweak personal actions to address the world as it is than to rant against how the world doesn't work per your ideals. at least this guy is self aware enough to admit there is some amount of bullshit in what he says. I am more concerned with people who refuse to admit this, or worse, genuinely don't believe it.
twicetwice 6y ago
You're right, unfortunately that's what it sounds like I'm saying. It's not really what I meant. The idea I was trying to get across is closer to "being able to communicate what I'm thinking about as I'm thinking about it, and verbalizing that as a coherent sentence rather than just fragments." Ironically, I wish I had communicated that better :)
- wallfacer 6y ago
  I’m a person who finds out what I’m thinking as I speak. Iterating towards an idea with confidence in each turn. Even if you end up in the vicinity of where you started, problem not actually solved, you demonstrate how you move through problem space. Similar to another comment I read comparing interviews to athletic tryouts and competition, which tries to assess how a body moves through physical space.

ipnon 6y ago

We can't expect everyone utterance to be rational and logical. We're all just human at the end of the day. We should expect job candidates to try their best to get the job.

eckza 6y ago
Yes we can! We’re computer programmers. Everything can and must be quantified. /s

kritiko 6y ago

What's the point of asking these sorts of questions? Typically to try to get a sense of how somebody thinks and what sort of rapport they have with the interviewer while problem solving, not that they get to the "correct" answer. I think they have some utility because this is a common occurrence when dealing with clients.

TheTruestKyle 6y ago
I call this a lie. We lie to play games to attempt to get inside someone's head. Sounds like armchair psychology to create some sense of "culture"

MattGaiser 6y ago

He isn’t advocating it. He is just saying that you must play the system as it is.

maxwindiff 6y ago
I don't know if he is really advocating it, but I absolutely support the notion that programmers should learn to bullshit better.

commandlinefan 6y ago

I'm not sure he's advocating for it, just pointing out that it's true.

Judgmentality 6y ago
> My takeaway, I guess—parents, make your kids do debate! He's encouraging parents to make their kids learn this skillset. He is absolutely advocating for it.
- sequoia 6y ago
  He's saying "this makes you more likely to win at the game, perhaps you want to teach your kids this skill so they can win." He is not saying "the game is fair."
- xenihn 6y ago
  That is absolutely not the same thing. You have to play the game by the rules, that user is just telling you how to win.
- swyx 6y ago
  don't hate the player, hate the game. easier to tweak personal actions to address the world as it is than to rant against how the world doesn't work per your ideals. at least this guy is self aware enough to admit there is some amount of bullshit in what he says. I am more concerned with people who refuse to admit this, or worse, genuinely don't believe it.

twicetwice 6y ago

You're right, unfortunately that's what it sounds like I'm saying. It's not really what I meant. The idea I was trying to get across is closer to "being able to communicate what I'm thinking about as I'm thinking about it, and verbalizing that as a coherent sentence rather than just fragments." Ironically, I wish I had communicated that better :)

wallfacer 6y ago
I’m a person who finds out what I’m thinking as I speak. Iterating towards an idea with confidence in each turn. Even if you end up in the vicinity of where you started, problem not actually solved, you demonstrate how you move through problem space. Similar to another comment I read comparing interviews to athletic tryouts and competition, which tries to assess how a body moves through physical space.