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Ultrasonic pairing? Okay... from TechCrunch: "not Bluetooth". Also it says it emits from "18 and 22 kHz" which "most people can't hear". Um, most adults. 18-2

Ultrasonic pairing? Okay... from TechCrunch: "not Bluetooth". Also it says it emits from "18 and 22 kHz" which "most people can't hear". Um, most adults. 18-22 kHz is DEFINITELY audible to teenagers and children. Or how about a dog! On the flipside, insects don't like hypersonic frequencies either, maybe I'll get less bites. Anyone remember mosquito ringtones blaring during class where the teacher would not even notice? That's how they get kids to quit loitering. So that might be a benefit for the WFH parent. This is what they use to see babies so imagine what it can see beyond your camera. I already know from using ultrasonic devices that I can hear this. They're loud and sound weird. From my understanding, frequencies in that range also interfere with hearing aids, monitors, and smart devices. In my head I'm like oh man, a bigger microphone array is going to make harvesting that audio data so much sweeter, that's a huge value proposition! If those devices are vulnerable to 'dolphin' attacks, or inaudible commands, this is yet another security concern. I wonder if they'll include support to map the acoustics and layout of your room through sound detection for projection optimization. Scary and enticing. This seems like a reasonably well designed tool that can either make my life more productive or help destroy it simultaneously. I mean if it's covered as an office expense, it's better than opting for webcam, monitor, microphone, speakers in a more svelte package. Apologies if this comment seems par for the norm to hate on Zoom. I'm actively trying to give them the benefit of the doubt to balance discussion here, but some of these choices are specifically bad.

Machado117 6y ago
This is already present in iOS and Windows https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/214629303-Direct-sharing-in-Zoom-Rooms https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/214629303-Direct-s...
GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
Cisco Proximity has been using this type of system for a few years now. Not sure which range of frequency they use, it's definitely ultrasonic. I've had instances where my BT headphones were still connected at my desk, and my laptop in a conference room couldn't hear the conference system.
- odomojuli 6y ago
  In many ways it's no different from what Bluetooth already does and the range of security issues with it, so I'm not really sure where the meat of my complaint arises from. I definitely notice that any jammers or sound-cancelling devices interfere with my connectivity though. And I can imagine that if that's the case here, people may not be able to use their favorite noise-cancelling headphones with this monitor. I think from an engineering perspective for compatibility, probably not using Bluetooth which in my experience is iffy, randomly connects all the time, requires fussy configuration and sometimes imposes maximums on how many devices can be connected (like if I use 5 bluetooth devices it turns off my wifi, not sure how that happens but now I know).
mNovak 6y ago
Chromecast has been using ultrasonic pairing for "guest mode" for some time. Haven't seen any major backlash from it yet. I'm assuming it's very briefly used to exchange some configurations, not continuously transmitting data.
- odomojuli 6y ago
  Right, the decision to use ultrasonic pairing is actually cogent since it doesn't involve hopping onto Wi-Fi or competing with Bluetooth devices.
acdha 6y ago
> 18-22 kHz is DEFINITELY audible to teenagers and children. I'm in my 40s and can still hear into that range so it's definitely not an edge case.
fossuser 6y ago
> Um, most adults. 18-22 kHz is DEFINITELY audible to teenagers and children. I think 18kHz children can barely hear, I don't think they can hear above that. The mosquito ringtones were usually lower than that. I don't disagree with your other points, but I suspect that frequency range won't be detected.
- odomojuli 6y ago
  I don't think it's outrageous to claim average speakers can comfortably emit 20-20khz. I don't think it's outrageous to claim that this is the comfortable range for most adults who experience some kind of hearing loss over time with age. Children most definitely can hear above 20khz. I at least have the anecdotal experience ("most" here is keyword to argue against) that I experimented with testing ultrasonic frequencies on multiple devices to see if audio file formats made any discernible difference in range performance. This involved "swooping" a frequency starting at 20hz to as high as you can emit it (which usually starts to sputter in consistency around 18kHz.
- Enginerrrd 6y ago
  As someone in my 30's that hears all of these god awful ultrasonic sensors, please don't assume that. Lighting occupancy sensors are the worst. And yes, I've had my hearing tested, and I am in fact, a freak.
  - guenthert 6y ago
    > I am in fact, a freak. It's rather common to assume that a good share of the adult population is near deaf. A few years ago I went to a restaurant with outside sitting near Big Sur. There was a nearly unbearable high pitch whine of which most other guests seemed blissfully unaware. I asked a waiter about it and he informed me, that they recently installed a system to shoo away birds from the tables. I think they also shooed away quite a few customers.
schwartzworld 6y ago
https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ I'm 38 and I made it up to almost 20khz before I couldn't hear a tone.

Machado117 6y ago

This is already present in iOS and Windows https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/214629303-Direct-sharing-in-Zoom-Rooms https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/214629303-Direct-s...

GaryNumanVevo 6y ago

Cisco Proximity has been using this type of system for a few years now. Not sure which range of frequency they use, it's definitely ultrasonic. I've had instances where my BT headphones were still connected at my desk, and my laptop in a conference room couldn't hear the conference system.

odomojuli 6y ago
In many ways it's no different from what Bluetooth already does and the range of security issues with it, so I'm not really sure where the meat of my complaint arises from. I definitely notice that any jammers or sound-cancelling devices interfere with my connectivity though. And I can imagine that if that's the case here, people may not be able to use their favorite noise-cancelling headphones with this monitor. I think from an engineering perspective for compatibility, probably not using Bluetooth which in my experience is iffy, randomly connects all the time, requires fussy configuration and sometimes imposes maximums on how many devices can be connected (like if I use 5 bluetooth devices it turns off my wifi, not sure how that happens but now I know).

mNovak 6y ago

Chromecast has been using ultrasonic pairing for "guest mode" for some time. Haven't seen any major backlash from it yet. I'm assuming it's very briefly used to exchange some configurations, not continuously transmitting data.

odomojuli 6y ago
Right, the decision to use ultrasonic pairing is actually cogent since it doesn't involve hopping onto Wi-Fi or competing with Bluetooth devices.

acdha 6y ago

> 18-22 kHz is DEFINITELY audible to teenagers and children. I'm in my 40s and can still hear into that range so it's definitely not an edge case.

fossuser 6y ago

> Um, most adults. 18-22 kHz is DEFINITELY audible to teenagers and children. I think 18kHz children can barely hear, I don't think they can hear above that. The mosquito ringtones were usually lower than that. I don't disagree with your other points, but I suspect that frequency range won't be detected.

odomojuli 6y ago
I don't think it's outrageous to claim average speakers can comfortably emit 20-20khz. I don't think it's outrageous to claim that this is the comfortable range for most adults who experience some kind of hearing loss over time with age. Children most definitely can hear above 20khz. I at least have the anecdotal experience ("most" here is keyword to argue against) that I experimented with testing ultrasonic frequencies on multiple devices to see if audio file formats made any discernible difference in range performance. This involved "swooping" a frequency starting at 20hz to as high as you can emit it (which usually starts to sputter in consistency around 18kHz.
Enginerrrd 6y ago
As someone in my 30's that hears all of these god awful ultrasonic sensors, please don't assume that. Lighting occupancy sensors are the worst. And yes, I've had my hearing tested, and I am in fact, a freak.
- guenthert 6y ago
  > I am in fact, a freak. It's rather common to assume that a good share of the adult population is near deaf. A few years ago I went to a restaurant with outside sitting near Big Sur. There was a nearly unbearable high pitch whine of which most other guests seemed blissfully unaware. I asked a waiter about it and he informed me, that they recently installed a system to shoo away birds from the tables. I think they also shooed away quite a few customers.

schwartzworld 6y ago

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ I'm 38 and I made it up to almost 20khz before I couldn't hear a tone.