11 ms·

Quote the actual infographic rather than the uncharitable interpretation provided by the (biased) guy posting it. As I read it, it's a list of traditional WASP

Quote the actual infographic rather than the uncharitable interpretation provided by the (biased) guy posting it. As I read it, it's a list of traditional WASP traits. Some mostly good (hard work, objectivity, delayed gratification) others much less so (respect for authority, religious intolerance, commoditization of time, normalisation of the "rat race" as the only acceptable path to the only acceptable idea of success, etc)

BrandonM 6y ago
I don't really have a dog in this fight (I'm neither WASP nor a person of color), but to me, equating the nuclear family with whiteness is a negative stereotype in practically every direction. If my parents got divorced, am I not truly white? If I have a nuclear family, am I not truly a person of color? It's extra frustrating because it's historically inaccurate: > A study of 1880 family structures in Philadelphia, showed that three-quarters of Black families were nuclear families, composed of two parents and children. Data from U.S. Census reports reveal that between 1880 and 1960, married households consisting of two-parent homes were the most widespread form of African-American family structures. > In the Harlem neighborhood of New York City in 1925, 85 percent of kin-related Black households had two parents. [By 1965,] out-of-wedlock birthrate had increased to 25% among the Black population. This figure continued to rise over time and in 1991, 68% of Black children were born outside of marriage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_struct... Similar arguments can be made against just about every point, but I'll address "Protestant Work Ethic". The NBA is majority African American, and players routinely share their workout regimen on social media: Jimmy Butler touted his 3:30a wake-up before his first Heat practice (https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article235562122.html https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article235...), Dennis Rodman—can anyone label him as a symbol of whiteness?—was admired for his grueling post-game workouts, Kobe and countless other players were known for hours-long shootarounds that would exhaust anyone. Are NBA players embodying white culture? It's worrying to me that if you shared the "White Culture" traits with racists from the past, they would agree vociferously, especially when you consider the implied inverse of those traits. They would use it as an argument for white superiority. It seems that the modern left has somehow embraced the racist stereotyping of the past, with the only difference being that they are painting the same traits—many of which are correlated with individual success—as otherness and a source of oppression. I don't understand how infographics like this could possibly make the world a better place. Are we meant to embrace them? As an individual of any group, should I somehow be factoring "information" like this into my beliefs and actions, and if so, how is it making my life and the lives of the people around me better?
- watwut 6y ago
  Nuclear family is also about lesser importance put of relationships with grandparents, adult siblings, aunts and so on. It also implies higher isolation from community. It is not universally objectively the best thing ever.
  - pdonis 6y ago
    > Nuclear family is also about lesser importance put of relationships with grandparents, adult siblings, aunts and so on. It could be, but I don't see the infographic saying that. The infographic could just as easily be saying that no family relationships at all is the (implied to be more desirable) alternative. In fact, that's a big issue with the infographic as a whole: what alternatives are we supposed to compare all these things to? None are given.
    - watwut 6y ago
      Why should infographic say that? It characterised norms of one demographic in one time and place. It does not have to make rundown of everything. Traditional alternative to nuclear family is extended family. Nuclear family as we know it is early 20 century norm, basically 1950 ideal. Or Asian and old Eastern European arrangements where woman goes to live with husbands familly. Interestingly, the different structure of black family (including supposed matriarchy, really) was blamed for social ills in black communities in 1965.
    - int_19h 6y ago
      If the infographic covered all the possible human cultural arrangements wrt families, that part alone would be far longer than everything else in it. But the point here is not to educate about all possibilities - it's rather to point out that a specific arrangement is considered normative, and (perceived) adherence or non-adherence to it is used to establish a hierarchy of groups.
  - projektfu 6y ago
    White supremacists also often hold up the nuclear family as ideal when they say it is under attack by feminism, immigration, multiculturalism, homosexuality and cosmopolitanism. The nuclear family is not typical in many other cultures that, as another poster mentioned, value many kinship relationships as well as neighbor relationships very highly and extend the family unit accordingly.
vertbhrtn 6y ago
What is WASP? WA State Police?
- bacondude3 6y ago
  White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  It's a derogatory reference to a race and culture. Can probably find it defined on Wiktionary or Urban Dictionary.
  - tanseydavid 6y ago
    The term is in fact, commonly, but not always used in a pejorative manner. From Wikipedia: "In the 21st century, WASP is often applied as a derogatory label to those with social privilege who are perceived to be snobbish and exclusive, such as being members of restrictive private social clubs.[63] A number of popular jokes ridicule those thought to fit the stereotype.[84]"
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    It's not derogatory among WASPs[1] themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTU2He2BIc0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTU2He2BIc0 wasn't aired outside New England, for instance. "We play croquet / and go rollerblading / here's to homies on lock / for insider trading" [1] In the past, it was White, as opposed to say, coloured, Anglo-Saxon, as opposed to say, irish, and Protestant, as opposed to say, catholic. One might not, seeing pictures such as: https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/jaqueline-bouvier-leads-her-pony-from-the-paddock-after-news-photo-514876088-1555105133.jpg https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images... suspect that JFK and Jackie, both undoubtedly privileged, were not considered orthodox by a large segment of the US population. https://www.courant.com/opinion/editorials/hc-xpm-2013-11-29-hc-op-thorson-giving-thanks-for-jfk-breaking-wasp-20131129-story.html https://www.courant.com/opinion/editorials/hc-xpm-2013-11-29... (as to White: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_African_Americans#Integration_of_the_armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_African_Am... says the US military already started integrating in 1948. Due to their long experience, in 2020 they may serve as an example for the elected politicians of ways to run a colour-blind meritocracy.)

BrandonM 6y ago

I don't really have a dog in this fight (I'm neither WASP nor a person of color), but to me, equating the nuclear family with whiteness is a negative stereotype in practically every direction. If my parents got divorced, am I not truly white? If I have a nuclear family, am I not truly a person of color? It's extra frustrating because it's historically inaccurate: > A study of 1880 family structures in Philadelphia, showed that three-quarters of Black families were nuclear families, composed of two parents and children. Data from U.S. Census reports reveal that between 1880 and 1960, married households consisting of two-parent homes were the most widespread form of African-American family structures. > In the Harlem neighborhood of New York City in 1925, 85 percent of kin-related Black households had two parents. [By 1965,] out-of-wedlock birthrate had increased to 25% among the Black population. This figure continued to rise over time and in 1991, 68% of Black children were born outside of marriage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_struct... Similar arguments can be made against just about every point, but I'll address "Protestant Work Ethic". The NBA is majority African American, and players routinely share their workout regimen on social media: Jimmy Butler touted his 3:30a wake-up before his first Heat practice (https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article235562122.html https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article235...), Dennis Rodman—can anyone label him as a symbol of whiteness?—was admired for his grueling post-game workouts, Kobe and countless other players were known for hours-long shootarounds that would exhaust anyone. Are NBA players embodying white culture? It's worrying to me that if you shared the "White Culture" traits with racists from the past, they would agree vociferously, especially when you consider the implied inverse of those traits. They would use it as an argument for white superiority. It seems that the modern left has somehow embraced the racist stereotyping of the past, with the only difference being that they are painting the same traits—many of which are correlated with individual success—as otherness and a source of oppression. I don't understand how infographics like this could possibly make the world a better place. Are we meant to embrace them? As an individual of any group, should I somehow be factoring "information" like this into my beliefs and actions, and if so, how is it making my life and the lives of the people around me better?

watwut 6y ago
Nuclear family is also about lesser importance put of relationships with grandparents, adult siblings, aunts and so on. It also implies higher isolation from community. It is not universally objectively the best thing ever.
- pdonis 6y ago
  > Nuclear family is also about lesser importance put of relationships with grandparents, adult siblings, aunts and so on. It could be, but I don't see the infographic saying that. The infographic could just as easily be saying that no family relationships at all is the (implied to be more desirable) alternative. In fact, that's a big issue with the infographic as a whole: what alternatives are we supposed to compare all these things to? None are given.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Why should infographic say that? It characterised norms of one demographic in one time and place. It does not have to make rundown of everything. Traditional alternative to nuclear family is extended family. Nuclear family as we know it is early 20 century norm, basically 1950 ideal. Or Asian and old Eastern European arrangements where woman goes to live with husbands familly. Interestingly, the different structure of black family (including supposed matriarchy, really) was blamed for social ills in black communities in 1965.
  - int_19h 6y ago
    If the infographic covered all the possible human cultural arrangements wrt families, that part alone would be far longer than everything else in it. But the point here is not to educate about all possibilities - it's rather to point out that a specific arrangement is considered normative, and (perceived) adherence or non-adherence to it is used to establish a hierarchy of groups.
- projektfu 6y ago
  White supremacists also often hold up the nuclear family as ideal when they say it is under attack by feminism, immigration, multiculturalism, homosexuality and cosmopolitanism. The nuclear family is not typical in many other cultures that, as another poster mentioned, value many kinship relationships as well as neighbor relationships very highly and extend the family unit accordingly.

vertbhrtn 6y ago

What is WASP? WA State Police?

bacondude3 6y ago
White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.
nitrogen 6y ago
It's a derogatory reference to a race and culture. Can probably find it defined on Wiktionary or Urban Dictionary.
- tanseydavid 6y ago
  The term is in fact, commonly, but not always used in a pejorative manner. From Wikipedia: "In the 21st century, WASP is often applied as a derogatory label to those with social privilege who are perceived to be snobbish and exclusive, such as being members of restrictive private social clubs.[63] A number of popular jokes ridicule those thought to fit the stereotype.[84]"
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  It's not derogatory among WASPs[1] themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTU2He2BIc0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTU2He2BIc0 wasn't aired outside New England, for instance. "We play croquet / and go rollerblading / here's to homies on lock / for insider trading" [1] In the past, it was White, as opposed to say, coloured, Anglo-Saxon, as opposed to say, irish, and Protestant, as opposed to say, catholic. One might not, seeing pictures such as: https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/jaqueline-bouvier-leads-her-pony-from-the-paddock-after-news-photo-514876088-1555105133.jpg https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images... suspect that JFK and Jackie, both undoubtedly privileged, were not considered orthodox by a large segment of the US population. https://www.courant.com/opinion/editorials/hc-xpm-2013-11-29-hc-op-thorson-giving-thanks-for-jfk-breaking-wasp-20131129-story.html https://www.courant.com/opinion/editorials/hc-xpm-2013-11-29... (as to White: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_African_Americans#Integration_of_the_armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_African_Am... says the US military already started integrating in 1948. Due to their long experience, in 2020 they may serve as an example for the elected politicians of ways to run a colour-blind meritocracy.)