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Nobody who complains about cancel culture can actually do that cause they'll out what they really mean, which is something like "I want to say racist/sexist shi

Nobody who complains about cancel culture can actually do that cause they'll out what they really mean, which is something like "I want to say racist/sexist shit but can't cause I'll get in trouble now."

gridlockd 6y ago
It's more like: "I can't say anything that someone somewhere might uncharitably interpret as sexist/racist/transphobic/homophobic or else I get in trouble now." For instance, pointing out scientifically well-established differences between genders and daring to draw the conclusion that maybe gender inequity is not entirely the fault of a sexist white cismale conspiracy - that will probably get you cancelled.
ksdale 6y ago
From the essay: "The more extreme will even accuse you of specific heresies they imagine you must have in mind, though if there's more than one heresy current in your time, these accusations will tend to be nondeterministic: you must either be an xist or a yist."
- wry_discontent 6y ago
  Yes, in life I make inferences on incomplete data. Racists online regularly complain about PC run amok and cancel culture, so if you complain about "cancel culture" too much in purely abstract terms, I don't really trust you. There exist people I'd like to cancel in the harshest sense. Cite specific instances, and maybe we can be on the same side.
  - ksdale 6y ago
    I think your inference-making algorithm doesn't distinguish between people who earnestly hold strong beliefs about speech, and racists. Perhaps there are so many more racists that it doesn't matter...
blablabla123 6y ago
And that's a really recent phenomenon, and least if you somehow come from the conservative "orthodox" part of society, also considering popular culture, plots of Hollywood movies in particular. Also there is a difference in having a proper discourse and just spilling out controversial opinions. I think in a philosophical context it's possible to discuss all sorts of things, in fact that's very much where the updated - and more critical - ethics comes from.
- wry_discontent 6y ago
  I think the context is actually the most significant part of the debate. You'll get in trouble for saying something in one context and not in another. That's normal. If we're having a discussion about racial differences in criminal justice and you bring up that you just read The Bell Curve and IQ differences explain the gap, I'm going to start to think you're racist. Partly because you're bringing up debunked junk science. And partly because we're talking about a systemic problem that can't be addressed with the information you're bringing to the table.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
temac 6y ago
I'm not sure about if I read you correctly. Do you mean that it is impossible to complain about "cancel culture", because it is inherently good and you are an horrible person if you complain? If yes, can you define cancel culture?
- wry_discontent 6y ago
  I don't think "cancel culture" is a well enough defined term to think much of it. What I do think is that people who complain about "cancel culture" have questionable motives. Because, and this is anecdotal, it's mostly reactionary grifters on Twitter who bring it up. I acknowledge there are some people who get concerned about it because of who they follow online (I follow Paul Graham, and there are definitely some grifters in his retweets.)

gridlockd 6y ago

It's more like: "I can't say anything that someone somewhere might uncharitably interpret as sexist/racist/transphobic/homophobic or else I get in trouble now." For instance, pointing out scientifically well-established differences between genders and daring to draw the conclusion that maybe gender inequity is not entirely the fault of a sexist white cismale conspiracy - that will probably get you cancelled.

ksdale 6y ago

From the essay: "The more extreme will even accuse you of specific heresies they imagine you must have in mind, though if there's more than one heresy current in your time, these accusations will tend to be nondeterministic: you must either be an xist or a yist."

wry_discontent 6y ago
Yes, in life I make inferences on incomplete data. Racists online regularly complain about PC run amok and cancel culture, so if you complain about "cancel culture" too much in purely abstract terms, I don't really trust you. There exist people I'd like to cancel in the harshest sense. Cite specific instances, and maybe we can be on the same side.
- ksdale 6y ago
  I think your inference-making algorithm doesn't distinguish between people who earnestly hold strong beliefs about speech, and racists. Perhaps there are so many more racists that it doesn't matter...

blablabla123 6y ago

And that's a really recent phenomenon, and least if you somehow come from the conservative "orthodox" part of society, also considering popular culture, plots of Hollywood movies in particular. Also there is a difference in having a proper discourse and just spilling out controversial opinions. I think in a philosophical context it's possible to discuss all sorts of things, in fact that's very much where the updated - and more critical - ethics comes from.

wry_discontent 6y ago
I think the context is actually the most significant part of the debate. You'll get in trouble for saying something in one context and not in another. That's normal. If we're having a discussion about racial differences in criminal justice and you bring up that you just read The Bell Curve and IQ differences explain the gap, I'm going to start to think you're racist. Partly because you're bringing up debunked junk science. And partly because we're talking about a systemic problem that can't be addressed with the information you're bringing to the table.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

temac 6y ago

I'm not sure about if I read you correctly. Do you mean that it is impossible to complain about "cancel culture", because it is inherently good and you are an horrible person if you complain? If yes, can you define cancel culture?

wry_discontent 6y ago
I don't think "cancel culture" is a well enough defined term to think much of it. What I do think is that people who complain about "cancel culture" have questionable motives. Because, and this is anecdotal, it's mostly reactionary grifters on Twitter who bring it up. I acknowledge there are some people who get concerned about it because of who they follow online (I follow Paul Graham, and there are definitely some grifters in his retweets.)