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> The statement is only raised for the purpose of preventing action from being taken or change being made, in regard to investigation into and prevention of unn

> The statement is only raised for the purpose of preventing action from being taken or change being made, in regard to investigation into and prevention of unnecessary deaths of black people. The statement that lots of white people are killed by US police is similarly both true and a distraction. I'd respectfully disagree on this issue. I think it's possible to be worried about police abuse of force from the context of being a person who is a mere citizen and thus has a lot less rights than the police. No ethnic group has a truly zero chance of dying at the police's hand. Do white people have it better? Yes absolutely. But it's not as though the police only use excessive force against black people. I think you're missing the possibility that there are conservatives who want police use of force reform too but want to do so in a color/ethnicity agnostic way. The idea that non-black people say 'All lives matter' only to prevent change is probably not correct. And the reactions like the one I quoted above only serve to divide folks rather than find common ground. It's pretty tragic.

pjc50 6y ago
> The idea that non-black people say 'All lives matter' only to prevent change is probably not correct Isn't it? Which genuine pre-existing police reform campaigns are using that phrase? Do you have any examples? > And the reactions like the one I quoted above only serve to divide folks rather than find common ground People are told that "all lives matter", in that specific phrasing, is divisive, and keep using it. If you say "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights", you're quoting from the universal declaration of human rights and uncontrovesial (in the west!) > I think you're missing the possibility that there are conservatives who want police use of force reform too but want to do so in a color/ethnicity agnostic way Are there? Who? More importantly, how? And I don't think any of the specific BLM proposals are actually race-specific, are they?
- notmyfriend 6y ago
  Make a distinction between the BLM organisation and the BLM movement. The BLM organisation is an openly marxist group who are riding the coat-tail of the movement to "overthrow" western civilisation. And if you don't think so go read their statement of purpose on their website and tell yourself that is just "reforming the police". https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/ https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
veridies 6y ago
If that were true, then you would see significant anti-police violence protests under the banner of "all lives matter." I will happily acknowledge that people who are protesting, or agitating for change, by using that phrase are (likely) not using it as a dogwhistle. But I've seen no one who does that. I've only seen the phrase used as a response to people fighting for black lives.
zozbot234 6y ago
> I think you're missing the possibility that there are conservatives who want police use of force reform too but want to do so in a color/ethnicity agnostic way. I agree with this, in that evidence seems to show that the problems with criminal justice and excessive use of force are amenable to color/ethnicity agnostic solutions, and that this would have the most positive impact by far on non-white minorities for obvious reasons. I also think BLM is doing a fine job of raising awareness about the issue but it's less clear that they have good solutions, whereas conservatives have been looking at this area for a long time but haven't done nearly enough to advertise the social equality angle. So this seems to be a case where orthodoxy privilege and lack of respect for intellectual diversity is hurting both sides.

pjc50 6y ago

> The idea that non-black people say 'All lives matter' only to prevent change is probably not correct Isn't it? Which genuine pre-existing police reform campaigns are using that phrase? Do you have any examples? > And the reactions like the one I quoted above only serve to divide folks rather than find common ground People are told that "all lives matter", in that specific phrasing, is divisive, and keep using it. If you say "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights", you're quoting from the universal declaration of human rights and uncontrovesial (in the west!) > I think you're missing the possibility that there are conservatives who want police use of force reform too but want to do so in a color/ethnicity agnostic way Are there? Who? More importantly, how? And I don't think any of the specific BLM proposals are actually race-specific, are they?

notmyfriend 6y ago
Make a distinction between the BLM organisation and the BLM movement. The BLM organisation is an openly marxist group who are riding the coat-tail of the movement to "overthrow" western civilisation. And if you don't think so go read their statement of purpose on their website and tell yourself that is just "reforming the police". https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/ https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

veridies 6y ago

If that were true, then you would see significant anti-police violence protests under the banner of "all lives matter." I will happily acknowledge that people who are protesting, or agitating for change, by using that phrase are (likely) not using it as a dogwhistle. But I've seen no one who does that. I've only seen the phrase used as a response to people fighting for black lives.

zozbot234 6y ago

> I think you're missing the possibility that there are conservatives who want police use of force reform too but want to do so in a color/ethnicity agnostic way. I agree with this, in that evidence seems to show that the problems with criminal justice and excessive use of force are amenable to color/ethnicity agnostic solutions, and that this would have the most positive impact by far on non-white minorities for obvious reasons. I also think BLM is doing a fine job of raising awareness about the issue but it's less clear that they have good solutions, whereas conservatives have been looking at this area for a long time but haven't done nearly enough to advertise the social equality angle. So this seems to be a case where orthodoxy privilege and lack of respect for intellectual diversity is hurting both sides.