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Why would anyone do that? I mean what kind of customers are going to install a 2nd app store then buy apps through it? Those app stores are going to be full of

by a2tech 6y ago

Why would anyone do that? I mean what kind of customers are going to install a 2nd app store then buy apps through it? Those app stores are going to be full of shady marginal apps. Without a leavening of 'good' 'trust worthy' apps, what credit card processor is going to handle their transactions?

mmastrac 6y ago
I would consider it. I specifically use Android because I have the freedom to install whatever kind of app I like. In my case I've had to sideload Netflix because it won't run on a device with an unlocked bootloader (annoying). This would actually make me far more interested in running iOS.
ballenf 6y ago
I would. I have a couple apps on my phone that are no longer in the app store due to policy changes at Apple. One is an old version of AdGuard which was essentially an on-device pihole. The other was an internet radio tuner which was pulled for reasons unknown. Until recently you couldn't purchase books in the Kindle app. I'd have happily downloaded a non-broken version from Amazon. There are many examples of apps with strong safeguards that aren't allowed in the apple app store.
ajconway 6y ago
Could be those unfortunate users who reside in one of the “forbidden” countries or regions. Of course, those countries are unlikely to be able to force Apple into opening up their platform.
rgovostes 6y ago
Simple. As soon as a competing store is available that takes a 20% cut (or has less onerous rules about in-app purchases, etc.), developers will move to that store to make more money. Users will follow.
- jedieaston 6y ago
  I feel like you could just as easily say "Simple. As soon as Google changes their cut to 20% for Android-exclusive apps, developers will move to that store to make more money. Users will follow". They won't. Users won't leave the walled garden, just as people on Android didn't leave it for Fortnite (the most popular game in the world at the time). The App Store comes with the phone and is safe, has customer support and nearly no malware. Any other App Store would require multiple extra steps to install, along with a bunch of "please don't" prompts that Apple would build in to make sure that the user knows what's happening (just like what happens on macOS with unsigned software). It would end up being too confusing for the masses, and they'd just find an alternative that was willing to sit in the App Store (or the nightmare, not use the app at all and go unhappy). Amazon already tried this exact thing on Android, where the barriers are a lot lower. They've never had success with their app store outside of their first-party devices. Why? Because it's too dang hard, and I'm willing to pay an extra buck for Minecraft if I don't have to track it down in another app and worry about malware coming through the wall. I'm all for a switch to install unsigned software, but only for development stuff. The App Store serves as a good barrier for 99% of users who just need to turn on their phone and use the darn app. The other 1% just need Apple to put a hidden switch to disable the protections ala csrutil in macOS and we'll be fine.
- ElFitz 6y ago
  Marketplaces aren't that easy. Supply (developers) wants to be where there is demand. Demand (consumers) is wherever it is and sometimes follows (some) of the supply. In our case, the demand being consumers, they are friction-averse and if you don't have a rock solid and unique value proposition, they tend to stay wherever they are.
michaelt 6y ago
I'd like an iOS web browser that wasn't just a wrapper around Safari, so it could do a better job of ad blocking - and I'd install a Firefox App Store if that was the only way to get it.
kyle-rb 6y ago
It's not just the issue of actual "alternative app stores". The issue that Telegram is running into here is that what Apple considers an "app store" is very broad, and when Telegram added games, Apple said "nope, can't do that, that would be an app store and that's illegal". Facebook is running into the same issue trying to launch their Facebook Gaming app on iOS. Apple keeps rejecting them because it's an app store, according to their policies. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/technology/apple-ios-facebook-gaming-app.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/technology/apple-ios-face...

by a2tech 6y ago

mmastrac 6y ago

I would consider it. I specifically use Android because I have the freedom to install whatever kind of app I like. In my case I've had to sideload Netflix because it won't run on a device with an unlocked bootloader (annoying). This would actually make me far more interested in running iOS.

ballenf 6y ago

I would. I have a couple apps on my phone that are no longer in the app store due to policy changes at Apple. One is an old version of AdGuard which was essentially an on-device pihole. The other was an internet radio tuner which was pulled for reasons unknown. Until recently you couldn't purchase books in the Kindle app. I'd have happily downloaded a non-broken version from Amazon. There are many examples of apps with strong safeguards that aren't allowed in the apple app store.

ajconway 6y ago

Could be those unfortunate users who reside in one of the “forbidden” countries or regions. Of course, those countries are unlikely to be able to force Apple into opening up their platform.

rgovostes 6y ago

Simple. As soon as a competing store is available that takes a 20% cut (or has less onerous rules about in-app purchases, etc.), developers will move to that store to make more money. Users will follow.

jedieaston 6y ago
I feel like you could just as easily say "Simple. As soon as Google changes their cut to 20% for Android-exclusive apps, developers will move to that store to make more money. Users will follow". They won't. Users won't leave the walled garden, just as people on Android didn't leave it for Fortnite (the most popular game in the world at the time). The App Store comes with the phone and is safe, has customer support and nearly no malware. Any other App Store would require multiple extra steps to install, along with a bunch of "please don't" prompts that Apple would build in to make sure that the user knows what's happening (just like what happens on macOS with unsigned software). It would end up being too confusing for the masses, and they'd just find an alternative that was willing to sit in the App Store (or the nightmare, not use the app at all and go unhappy). Amazon already tried this exact thing on Android, where the barriers are a lot lower. They've never had success with their app store outside of their first-party devices. Why? Because it's too dang hard, and I'm willing to pay an extra buck for Minecraft if I don't have to track it down in another app and worry about malware coming through the wall. I'm all for a switch to install unsigned software, but only for development stuff. The App Store serves as a good barrier for 99% of users who just need to turn on their phone and use the darn app. The other 1% just need Apple to put a hidden switch to disable the protections ala csrutil in macOS and we'll be fine.
ElFitz 6y ago
Marketplaces aren't that easy. Supply (developers) wants to be where there is demand. Demand (consumers) is wherever it is and sometimes follows (some) of the supply. In our case, the demand being consumers, they are friction-averse and if you don't have a rock solid and unique value proposition, they tend to stay wherever they are.

michaelt 6y ago

I'd like an iOS web browser that wasn't just a wrapper around Safari, so it could do a better job of ad blocking - and I'd install a Firefox App Store if that was the only way to get it.

kyle-rb 6y ago

It's not just the issue of actual "alternative app stores". The issue that Telegram is running into here is that what Apple considers an "app store" is very broad, and when Telegram added games, Apple said "nope, can't do that, that would be an app store and that's illegal". Facebook is running into the same issue trying to launch their Facebook Gaming app on iOS. Apple keeps rejecting them because it's an app store, according to their policies. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/technology/apple-ios-facebook-gaming-app.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/technology/apple-ios-face...