5 ms·

From the original finding: "The Commission's investigation concluded that Ireland granted illegal tax benefits to Apple, which enabled it to pay substantially

From the original finding: "The Commission's investigation concluded that Ireland granted illegal tax benefits to Apple, which enabled it to pay substantially less tax than other businesses over many years. In fact, this selective treatment allowed Apple to pay an effective corporate tax rate of 1 percent on its European profits in 2003 down to 0.005 percent in 2014." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_illegal_State_aid_case_against_Apple_in_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_illegal_State_aid_case_agai...

alphadevx 6y ago
Yes and that finding has just been overturned.
- SahAssar 6y ago
  Are the facts in dispute or just the legality of them?
  - alphadevx 6y ago
    The legality I believe. I don't think the Irish Government or Apple tried to hide anything, so the facts are out there in the public domain (Apple is a public company). More about the EC implying it was illegal, but that has now been overturned so all parties legally (if not morally, depending on your point of view...) vindicated.
    - SahAssar 6y ago
      If so the only part of the comment you were replying to above that was "overturned" was the word "illegal". Just wanted to make that clear, since I'm one of the people who think that it's still immoral and should be illegal.
      - alphadevx 6y ago
        Well in a court of law, it is the letter of the law that matters, not how we feel. So it may be immoral but is not illegal.
        ebalit 6y ago
        Some countries including France and Germany have the concept of "Abuse of Rights" [0]. I don't know if it would apply in a case similar to Apple, but it can definitely apply when you're trying to find loopholes to not pay taxes. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse_of_rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse_of_rights
    - yashap 6y ago
      Indeed. My understanding is that the deal is basically Ireland saying “hey Apple, employ Irish people in Irish Apple offices, and we’ll pass whatever laws you want to allow you to pay zero corporate tax in Europe, despite massive real (pre-fudging) profits.” And it’s not just Apple, it’s tonnes of US tech giants benefiting from this. It would be illegal if Apple got special treatment, which is what the original ruling found, but the appeal finds that all major US tech companies can access these loopholes, so it’s OK.
csunbird 6y ago
Meanwhile, the working people in Germany are paying 20 percent to 35 percent income taxes in their salaries.
- Frost1x 6y ago
  Welcome to America (somewhat)! Hopefully the rest of the world won't fall for the same corporate schemes we in America did. This doesn't look so reassuring, though.
- chvid 6y ago
  40 to 60 in Denmark ...
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  They can vote in leaders who will reduce it. Democracy is a fun thing.
- joelennon 6y ago
  Working people in Ireland also pay high taxes on their income. In Ireland you pay 20% income tax on the first €35,300, and 40% on income above this amount (if you are a single person, there are different cut-offs for married people and one-parent families). You also pay an additional Universal Social Charge on all income over €13,000 - between 2-8% depending on your income level, or 11% for self-employed income over €100,000. Add on pay related social insurance (PRSI) of 4% too.
  - rusk 6y ago
    Don’t forget the ridiculous property prices and rapacious rental market. The skyrocketing unchecked insurance costs and the 25% VAT and the total of 33% tax on cars (VAT + questionably legal VRT). Ireland is only a low tax economy if you don’t live here.
- arrrg 6y ago
  The range starts at six percent (assuming full-time employment and minimum wage, it can drop lower if you are working part-time). It’s at 15 percent for people earning the median wage (€3,300), meaning half of all Germans pay 15 percent or less of their salary in income tax. Your range if very far removed from reality. (It is true, though, that for very high incomes 35 percent aren’t the ceiling, that’s somewhere in the forties if you are making several hundred thousand per month.)

alphadevx 6y ago

Yes and that finding has just been overturned.

SahAssar 6y ago
Are the facts in dispute or just the legality of them?
- alphadevx 6y ago
  The legality I believe. I don't think the Irish Government or Apple tried to hide anything, so the facts are out there in the public domain (Apple is a public company). More about the EC implying it was illegal, but that has now been overturned so all parties legally (if not morally, depending on your point of view...) vindicated.
  - SahAssar 6y ago
    If so the only part of the comment you were replying to above that was "overturned" was the word "illegal". Just wanted to make that clear, since I'm one of the people who think that it's still immoral and should be illegal.
    - alphadevx 6y ago
      Well in a court of law, it is the letter of the law that matters, not how we feel. So it may be immoral but is not illegal.
      - ebalit 6y ago
        Some countries including France and Germany have the concept of "Abuse of Rights" [0]. I don't know if it would apply in a case similar to Apple, but it can definitely apply when you're trying to find loopholes to not pay taxes. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse_of_rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse_of_rights
  - yashap 6y ago
    Indeed. My understanding is that the deal is basically Ireland saying “hey Apple, employ Irish people in Irish Apple offices, and we’ll pass whatever laws you want to allow you to pay zero corporate tax in Europe, despite massive real (pre-fudging) profits.” And it’s not just Apple, it’s tonnes of US tech giants benefiting from this. It would be illegal if Apple got special treatment, which is what the original ruling found, but the appeal finds that all major US tech companies can access these loopholes, so it’s OK.

csunbird 6y ago

Meanwhile, the working people in Germany are paying 20 percent to 35 percent income taxes in their salaries.

Frost1x 6y ago
Welcome to America (somewhat)! Hopefully the rest of the world won't fall for the same corporate schemes we in America did. This doesn't look so reassuring, though.
chvid 6y ago
40 to 60 in Denmark ...
perryizgr8 6y ago
They can vote in leaders who will reduce it. Democracy is a fun thing.
joelennon 6y ago
Working people in Ireland also pay high taxes on their income. In Ireland you pay 20% income tax on the first €35,300, and 40% on income above this amount (if you are a single person, there are different cut-offs for married people and one-parent families). You also pay an additional Universal Social Charge on all income over €13,000 - between 2-8% depending on your income level, or 11% for self-employed income over €100,000. Add on pay related social insurance (PRSI) of 4% too.
- rusk 6y ago
  Don’t forget the ridiculous property prices and rapacious rental market. The skyrocketing unchecked insurance costs and the 25% VAT and the total of 33% tax on cars (VAT + questionably legal VRT). Ireland is only a low tax economy if you don’t live here.
arrrg 6y ago
The range starts at six percent (assuming full-time employment and minimum wage, it can drop lower if you are working part-time). It’s at 15 percent for people earning the median wage (€3,300), meaning half of all Germans pay 15 percent or less of their salary in income tax. Your range if very far removed from reality. (It is true, though, that for very high incomes 35 percent aren’t the ceiling, that’s somewhere in the forties if you are making several hundred thousand per month.)