4 ms·

Everyone in our field should do themselves a favor and learn to touch-type regardless of the physical keyboard.

Akronymus 6y ago
I tried to learn the qwerty layout before, but my muscle memory is so ingrained that it was impossible for me at the time. And without correct keycaps it is even harder.
- Lio 6y ago
  About 11 years ago (I think) I switched to the Colemak layout. It's a pain to switch at first but you do quickly get used to it. That forced me to always touch type, a good thing. It also has the advantage that the layout is pretty consistent across physical keyboard layout. That's not the case for UK Qwerty; UK Apple is different to UK ISO is different (obviously) to ANSI. Where as Colemak is pretty consistent. So it's been helpful when moving between machines and OSs. ...it's also been the generator of hilarious memories, such as when someone changes their layout to Colemak for me to type something and then we logout their machine and discover they can't type their password or change layout back to Qwerty. Ah, good times...
- hocuspocus 6y ago
  Not being able to look at the keyboard is actually a good way to learn. Of course you'll have to fight your muscle memory and type at 20 wpm for a couple weeks. There's no shortcut.
  - Akronymus 6y ago
    My problem is that I need to be able to check where the keys are to be able to learn it in the first place. I can touch type quite well, just not type at all in a layout I never used before, without being able to look at the keys.
    - hocuspocus 6y ago
      Print out the layout and put it under your monitor while you learn.
      - Akronymus 6y ago
        That is such a good idea that I missed it for being so simple.
Lev1a 6y ago
I did a few years back during uni[1] and I'm pretty sure that's still my most used skill I learned there. [1]: Decided one day to get myself one of those little booklets with training software on CD. I then slowly stepped through the training steps (each step more letters and more repitition of already learned ones) and got decent at touch-typing by forcing myself to use it more and more in everyday uni life. Took about one or two months to get up to a level usable in general typing (writing for reports/homework AND programming) with little to no pauses or errors.
rmetzler 6y ago
I agree, but this doesn’t has anything to do with the keyboard layout, except that if you need to switch layouts regularly, touch-typing doesn’t get easier. The thread is about the accessibility of some brackets on German QWERTZ keyboard layouts. These curly brackets aren’t even printed on some external Apple keyboards. And if you try to type them with one hand, you would need to turn your wrist in some unnatural position. That’s the main reason why I use an US QWERTY keyboard for the last 15 years.
- qalmakka 6y ago
  Umlaut vowels and ß are easy to input using the US international keyboard layout (with dead keys/AltGr combinations). I'm Italian, I study German and I find extremely convenient being able to easily input both àèéìòóù and äëöü without having to learn a second layout and switching.
divingdragon 6y ago
This doesn't help with some of the difference between ANSI and ISO layouts. For example ANSI uses a long Enter key while ISO uses one that looks like the shape of a "7".
- hocuspocus 6y ago
  ISO has one extra key, that's it. I only buy ANSI keyboards and like the layout better (both Enter and left Shift are easier to reach) but I occasionally get to type on ISO keyboards, it's not too bad.
_ph_ 6y ago
I am quite a good touch typists and that makes it so difficult for me, to switch layouts. Once your muscle memory is hard wired, you cannot arbitrarily change things. Last time I had to type on English layouts, it reduced my ability to touch-type greatly.
- hocuspocus 6y ago
  Well that's exactly my point. Pick a layout and stick to it. Regardless of what's printed on the keys.
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    Right, that's what I did. I stuck with the German layout, as this allows me to use my native language too. But his means, certain characters, like brackets, are more difficult to type and thus the assumption, that everyone is using an (US) English keyboard is a wrong one. But in a general sense, I fully agree to your statement. Learning to touch type was an extremely valuable skill to acquire and I can only recommend it to everyone.

I tried to learn the qwerty layout before, but my muscle memory is so ingrained that it was impossible for me at the time. And without correct keycaps it is even harder.

Lio 6y ago
About 11 years ago (I think) I switched to the Colemak layout. It's a pain to switch at first but you do quickly get used to it. That forced me to always touch type, a good thing. It also has the advantage that the layout is pretty consistent across physical keyboard layout. That's not the case for UK Qwerty; UK Apple is different to UK ISO is different (obviously) to ANSI. Where as Colemak is pretty consistent. So it's been helpful when moving between machines and OSs. ...it's also been the generator of hilarious memories, such as when someone changes their layout to Colemak for me to type something and then we logout their machine and discover they can't type their password or change layout back to Qwerty. Ah, good times...
hocuspocus 6y ago
Not being able to look at the keyboard is actually a good way to learn. Of course you'll have to fight your muscle memory and type at 20 wpm for a couple weeks. There's no shortcut.
- Akronymus 6y ago
  My problem is that I need to be able to check where the keys are to be able to learn it in the first place. I can touch type quite well, just not type at all in a layout I never used before, without being able to look at the keys.
  - hocuspocus 6y ago
    Print out the layout and put it under your monitor while you learn.
    - Akronymus 6y ago
      That is such a good idea that I missed it for being so simple.

Lev1a 6y ago

I did a few years back during uni[1] and I'm pretty sure that's still my most used skill I learned there. [1]: Decided one day to get myself one of those little booklets with training software on CD. I then slowly stepped through the training steps (each step more letters and more repitition of already learned ones) and got decent at touch-typing by forcing myself to use it more and more in everyday uni life. Took about one or two months to get up to a level usable in general typing (writing for reports/homework AND programming) with little to no pauses or errors.

rmetzler 6y ago

I agree, but this doesn’t has anything to do with the keyboard layout, except that if you need to switch layouts regularly, touch-typing doesn’t get easier. The thread is about the accessibility of some brackets on German QWERTZ keyboard layouts. These curly brackets aren’t even printed on some external Apple keyboards. And if you try to type them with one hand, you would need to turn your wrist in some unnatural position. That’s the main reason why I use an US QWERTY keyboard for the last 15 years.

qalmakka 6y ago
Umlaut vowels and ß are easy to input using the US international keyboard layout (with dead keys/AltGr combinations). I'm Italian, I study German and I find extremely convenient being able to easily input both àèéìòóù and äëöü without having to learn a second layout and switching.

divingdragon 6y ago

This doesn't help with some of the difference between ANSI and ISO layouts. For example ANSI uses a long Enter key while ISO uses one that looks like the shape of a "7".

hocuspocus 6y ago
ISO has one extra key, that's it. I only buy ANSI keyboards and like the layout better (both Enter and left Shift are easier to reach) but I occasionally get to type on ISO keyboards, it's not too bad.

_ph_ 6y ago

I am quite a good touch typists and that makes it so difficult for me, to switch layouts. Once your muscle memory is hard wired, you cannot arbitrarily change things. Last time I had to type on English layouts, it reduced my ability to touch-type greatly.

hocuspocus 6y ago
Well that's exactly my point. Pick a layout and stick to it. Regardless of what's printed on the keys.
- _ph_ 6y ago
  Right, that's what I did. I stuck with the German layout, as this allows me to use my native language too. But his means, certain characters, like brackets, are more difficult to type and thus the assumption, that everyone is using an (US) English keyboard is a wrong one. But in a general sense, I fully agree to your statement. Learning to touch type was an extremely valuable skill to acquire and I can only recommend it to everyone.