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QWERTZ here. I need to use the following key combinations: shift + 8 -> ( shift + 9 -> ) alt + ctrl + 8 -> [ alt + ctrl + 9 -> ] alt + ctrl + 7 -> { alt +

QWERTZ here. I need to use the following key combinations: shift + 8 -> ( shift + 9 -> ) alt + ctrl + 8 -> [ alt + ctrl + 9 -> ] alt + ctrl + 7 -> { alt + ctrl + 0 -> } Alternatively alt + ctrl can be replaced by altgr. And for further fun: alt + ctrl + ß -> \ shift + 0 -> = shift + 7 -> / Actually, it is probably easier to link the whole layout: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_2137#/media/Datei:Deutsche_Tastaturbelegung_T1_nach_DIN_2137-01--2018-12.png https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_2137#/media/Datei:Deutsche... It is pretty bad for programming in languages that make heavy usage of braces/brackets/parenthesis.

rk06 6y ago
at that point, you might as well buy a QWERTY keyboard
- riffraff 6y ago
  I have a QWERTY keyboard but with italian layout, and the special characters are also in different places[0]. I have * <shift>+<8,9> for (,) * <altgr>+<è> for [ * <altgr>+<+> for ] * <altgr>+<shift>+<è> for } * <altgr>+<shift>+<+> for } yes, it's a pain to use some languages. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#Italian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#Italian
  - qalmakka 6y ago
    Add to that the fact that typing ~ and ` is impossible with the standard it layout (on X11 you can using platform-specific extra key combinations, such as `AltGr` + `+` if I recall correctly, while on Windows you must use ALT codes). So pleasant... Also, random rant, the IT keyboard layout is moronic because on most platforms inputting accented uppercase letters is not possible in any way. Ironically, 'c with cedilla', section sign `§`, degree sign and the now unused pound sign are present on every key and easily typed using shift. I've been arguing since the dawn of time that "US with dead keys" is a vastly better keyboard layout for Italian than the Italian one, and that's the one I use (more correctly, I use US International with AltGr keys due to the fact I type accented letters less frequently than I type single quotes or backticks).
- hocuspocus 6y ago
  Everyone in our field should do themselves a favor and learn to touch-type regardless of the physical keyboard.
  - Akronymus 6y ago
    I tried to learn the qwerty layout before, but my muscle memory is so ingrained that it was impossible for me at the time. And without correct keycaps it is even harder.
    - Lio 6y ago
      About 11 years ago (I think) I switched to the Colemak layout. It's a pain to switch at first but you do quickly get used to it. That forced me to always touch type, a good thing. It also has the advantage that the layout is pretty consistent across physical keyboard layout. That's not the case for UK Qwerty; UK Apple is different to UK ISO is different (obviously) to ANSI. Where as Colemak is pretty consistent. So it's been helpful when moving between machines and OSs. ...it's also been the generator of hilarious memories, such as when someone changes their layout to Colemak for me to type something and then we logout their machine and discover they can't type their password or change layout back to Qwerty. Ah, good times...
    - hocuspocus 6y ago
      Not being able to look at the keyboard is actually a good way to learn. Of course you'll have to fight your muscle memory and type at 20 wpm for a couple weeks. There's no shortcut.
      - Akronymus 6y ago
        My problem is that I need to be able to check where the keys are to be able to learn it in the first place. I can touch type quite well, just not type at all in a layout I never used before, without being able to look at the keys.
        hocuspocus 6y ago
- Akronymus 6y ago
  I seem to be unable to find qwerty keycaps for a g513 without having to buy a completely new keyboard. So, for me it is not really an option.
tgb 6y ago
Are parentheses not used in daily writing in your language?
- ynik 6y ago
  DE shift+8/9 is only slightly worse than US shift+9/0 for parens. Brackets+Braces are the real problem on DE layout. I switched between US (programming) and DE (writing German) for a couple years; but then ended up using US-intl-no-dead-keys everywhere because the constant switching of input methods was annoying (especially due to Y/Z being swapped on DE, which causes confusion between undo/redo).
- brazzy 6y ago
  They are, but so are ä, ö, ü, Ä, Ö, Ü, and ß.
pantalaimon 6y ago
> Alternatively alt + ctrl can be replaced by altgr. What operating system are you on? I can only create those with AltGr, anything shift-alt will be interpreted as a keyboard shortcut.
- Akronymus 6y ago
  Win 10. Are you maybe confusing alt ctrl with alt shift? Your comment seems to indicate it as that being the case.
himinlomax 6y ago
That's why I switched to Qwerty 20 years ago (from Azerty); I used caps lock as a compose key for diacritics. Makes it easier to type common signs such as ≤ → ≠ Ø
- 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
  Same here, I only use US layout, but caps lock mapped to compose the keys my native language needs. They are mapped to the same place I left them 10 yrs ago, it was easier the beginning.
1-more 6y ago
Inspired by the space cadet keyboard, I have (){}<> as hold/tap on my modifiers. It vastly improves my coding experience.

rk06 6y ago

at that point, you might as well buy a QWERTY keyboard

riffraff 6y ago
I have a QWERTY keyboard but with italian layout, and the special characters are also in different places[0]. I have * <shift>+<8,9> for (,) * <altgr>+<è> for [ * <altgr>+<+> for ] * <altgr>+<shift>+<è> for } * <altgr>+<shift>+<+> for } yes, it's a pain to use some languages. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#Italian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#Italian
- qalmakka 6y ago
  Add to that the fact that typing ~ and ` is impossible with the standard it layout (on X11 you can using platform-specific extra key combinations, such as `AltGr` + `+` if I recall correctly, while on Windows you must use ALT codes). So pleasant... Also, random rant, the IT keyboard layout is moronic because on most platforms inputting accented uppercase letters is not possible in any way. Ironically, 'c with cedilla', section sign `§`, degree sign and the now unused pound sign are present on every key and easily typed using shift. I've been arguing since the dawn of time that "US with dead keys" is a vastly better keyboard layout for Italian than the Italian one, and that's the one I use (more correctly, I use US International with AltGr keys due to the fact I type accented letters less frequently than I type single quotes or backticks).
hocuspocus 6y ago
Everyone in our field should do themselves a favor and learn to touch-type regardless of the physical keyboard.
- Akronymus 6y ago
  I tried to learn the qwerty layout before, but my muscle memory is so ingrained that it was impossible for me at the time. And without correct keycaps it is even harder.
  - Lio 6y ago
    About 11 years ago (I think) I switched to the Colemak layout. It's a pain to switch at first but you do quickly get used to it. That forced me to always touch type, a good thing. It also has the advantage that the layout is pretty consistent across physical keyboard layout. That's not the case for UK Qwerty; UK Apple is different to UK ISO is different (obviously) to ANSI. Where as Colemak is pretty consistent. So it's been helpful when moving between machines and OSs. ...it's also been the generator of hilarious memories, such as when someone changes their layout to Colemak for me to type something and then we logout their machine and discover they can't type their password or change layout back to Qwerty. Ah, good times...
  - hocuspocus 6y ago
    Not being able to look at the keyboard is actually a good way to learn. Of course you'll have to fight your muscle memory and type at 20 wpm for a couple weeks. There's no shortcut.
    - Akronymus 6y ago
      My problem is that I need to be able to check where the keys are to be able to learn it in the first place. I can touch type quite well, just not type at all in a layout I never used before, without being able to look at the keys.
      - hocuspocus 6y ago
Akronymus 6y ago
I seem to be unable to find qwerty keycaps for a g513 without having to buy a completely new keyboard. So, for me it is not really an option.

tgb 6y ago

Are parentheses not used in daily writing in your language?

ynik 6y ago
DE shift+8/9 is only slightly worse than US shift+9/0 for parens. Brackets+Braces are the real problem on DE layout. I switched between US (programming) and DE (writing German) for a couple years; but then ended up using US-intl-no-dead-keys everywhere because the constant switching of input methods was annoying (especially due to Y/Z being swapped on DE, which causes confusion between undo/redo).
brazzy 6y ago
They are, but so are ä, ö, ü, Ä, Ö, Ü, and ß.

pantalaimon 6y ago

> Alternatively alt + ctrl can be replaced by altgr. What operating system are you on? I can only create those with AltGr, anything shift-alt will be interpreted as a keyboard shortcut.

Akronymus 6y ago
Win 10. Are you maybe confusing alt ctrl with alt shift? Your comment seems to indicate it as that being the case.

himinlomax 6y ago

That's why I switched to Qwerty 20 years ago (from Azerty); I used caps lock as a compose key for diacritics. Makes it easier to type common signs such as ≤ → ≠ Ø

9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
Same here, I only use US layout, but caps lock mapped to compose the keys my native language needs. They are mapped to the same place I left them 10 yrs ago, it was easier the beginning.

1-more 6y ago

Inspired by the space cadet keyboard, I have (){}<> as hold/tap on my modifiers. It vastly improves my coding experience.