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Are you saying there are no mechanisms that allow wealthy people to influence human behavior on a large scale? Please read "Propaganda" by Edward Bernays.

by Guy2020 6y ago

inopinatus 6y ago
The problem with your thesis is that it overlooks the centuries-long advancement of feminism in favour of a conspiracy theory.
- Guy2020 6y ago
  It's funny how people dismiss things so readily by labeling them "conspiracy theory." I just can't imagine looking at a world with such great wealth inequality and coming to the conclusion that this is an equal playing field where everyone exerts the same influence on the evolution of humanity.
  - jimbob45 6y ago
    Either you have sufficient evidence or you don’t. This is what separates us from the schizos.
  - inopinatus 6y ago
    Mary Wollstonecraft was not rich, and (ironically given this discussion) died due to the complications of giving birth to Mary Shelley. The claim that the wealthy are controlling everyone's fertility is as short-sighted as it is parochial. Given that elsewhere in this thread you explain how this is all the work of a shadow government, the label hardly seems unwarranted.
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      They're controlling the economy in ways that influence reproductive choices.
      - inopinatus 6y ago
        Social progress influences choice, which in turn influences economies, which influence people. There is no cabal of They. The "shadow government" thesis is straight-up conspiracy batshit. Unless you mean the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China who certainly authorized the two-child law just a few years back, but they're not really a shadow government. They're a regular one, just not very transparent. Ultimately both Chinese communism (via Hegel) and Western feminism (via Wollstonecraft) trace their origins back to the French Revolution, so maybe you are being controlled by Robespierre.
mr_woozy 6y ago
There should be a godwins law for people who attempt to use this method of ending a discussion. "go read this book which explains my point because I can't explain it well enough to others." is not a convincing argument in the least.
- Guy2020 6y ago
  What good are books if we can't direct people at them? That book makes my case. The fact that Bernays was a major advisor for the media complex of America makes the book an even more significant piece of evidence for my position.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - tomerico 6y ago
    The idea is not that books are not useful, but that you should make effort to summarize the main point of the book while still recommending the book.
    - Guy2020 6y ago
      Ok...the main point is that there is a shadow government that shapes our culture and people's perceptions through mass media and by corrupting influential people for the purpose of endorsing certain ideas/products. In that work, Bernays details these types of "shadow governments."
- inopinatus 6y ago
  You should see their blog. It quotes Nietszche and the Bene Gesserit on the way to thousands of words restating Wittgenstein's axioms.
Animats 6y ago
France has tried. They even give subsidies. But the fertility rate is only 1.85. The groups that are still growing are those that oppress women. Islamic countries [1] and ultra-orthodox Jews, especially. Evangelical Christians used to be higher but have now dropped down to the below-replacement US rate. Teen pregnancies are way down in the US. So are abortions; that's not it. Nobody really understands why. There's lots of speculation. The decline of religion? Better birth control? Video games? Declining testosterone levels? Fewer people in agriculture? [1] Fertility rate 2.9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth [2] Fertility rate 6.2. https://geopoliticalfutures.com/israeli-population-increase-2016/ https://geopoliticalfutures.com/israeli-population-increase-... [3] https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2018/06/faith-fertility-and-the-fate-of-american-religion/ https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2018/06/faith-fer...

Are you saying there are no mechanisms that allow wealthy people to influence human behavior on a large scale? Please read "Propaganda" by Edward Bernays.

inopinatus 6y ago

The problem with your thesis is that it overlooks the centuries-long advancement of feminism in favour of a conspiracy theory.

Guy2020 6y ago
It's funny how people dismiss things so readily by labeling them "conspiracy theory." I just can't imagine looking at a world with such great wealth inequality and coming to the conclusion that this is an equal playing field where everyone exerts the same influence on the evolution of humanity.
- jimbob45 6y ago
  Either you have sufficient evidence or you don’t. This is what separates us from the schizos.
- inopinatus 6y ago
  Mary Wollstonecraft was not rich, and (ironically given this discussion) died due to the complications of giving birth to Mary Shelley. The claim that the wealthy are controlling everyone's fertility is as short-sighted as it is parochial. Given that elsewhere in this thread you explain how this is all the work of a shadow government, the label hardly seems unwarranted.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    They're controlling the economy in ways that influence reproductive choices.
    - inopinatus 6y ago
      Social progress influences choice, which in turn influences economies, which influence people. There is no cabal of They. The "shadow government" thesis is straight-up conspiracy batshit. Unless you mean the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China who certainly authorized the two-child law just a few years back, but they're not really a shadow government. They're a regular one, just not very transparent. Ultimately both Chinese communism (via Hegel) and Western feminism (via Wollstonecraft) trace their origins back to the French Revolution, so maybe you are being controlled by Robespierre.

mr_woozy 6y ago

There should be a godwins law for people who attempt to use this method of ending a discussion. "go read this book which explains my point because I can't explain it well enough to others." is not a convincing argument in the least.

Guy2020 6y ago
What good are books if we can't direct people at them? That book makes my case. The fact that Bernays was a major advisor for the media complex of America makes the book an even more significant piece of evidence for my position.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tomerico 6y ago
  The idea is not that books are not useful, but that you should make effort to summarize the main point of the book while still recommending the book.
  - Guy2020 6y ago
    Ok...the main point is that there is a shadow government that shapes our culture and people's perceptions through mass media and by corrupting influential people for the purpose of endorsing certain ideas/products. In that work, Bernays details these types of "shadow governments."
inopinatus 6y ago
You should see their blog. It quotes Nietszche and the Bene Gesserit on the way to thousands of words restating Wittgenstein's axioms.

Animats 6y ago

France has tried. They even give subsidies. But the fertility rate is only 1.85. The groups that are still growing are those that oppress women. Islamic countries [1] and ultra-orthodox Jews, especially. Evangelical Christians used to be higher but have now dropped down to the below-replacement US rate. Teen pregnancies are way down in the US. So are abortions; that's not it. Nobody really understands why. There's lots of speculation. The decline of religion? Better birth control? Video games? Declining testosterone levels? Fewer people in agriculture? [1] Fertility rate 2.9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth [2] Fertility rate 6.2. https://geopoliticalfutures.com/israeli-population-increase-2016/ https://geopoliticalfutures.com/israeli-population-increase-... [3] https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2018/06/faith-fertility-and-the-fate-of-american-religion/ https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2018/06/faith-fer...