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I feel like bemoaning sub-replacement rate fertility doesn't take into account the exponential growth of automation in post-industrialized economies and how lit

by qppo 6y ago

I feel like bemoaning sub-replacement rate fertility doesn't take into account the exponential growth of automation in post-industrialized economies and how little labor actually needs to be done to maintain the same productivity, let alone how less labor increases productivity in an organization (no numbers there - just an observation from my own work). Extrapolated to society I'm not really afraid of an aging population of pensioners like Japan several years ago, because 10 years from now we'll be moving further from human controlled economic activity. But who knows if that is going to be a good thing. I guess what I'm saying is we're going to hit Star Trek or the Matrix

kalleboo 6y ago
I worry because society has not given us the benefits of increased productivity. We've already massively increased productivity with computerization, but during that same period instead of more leisure time, society has actually demanded MORE working hours (by putting more women to work)
- arp242 6y ago
  The question is, are those people actually doing useful work which contributes to an increase of happiness or living standards for people? I'd argue that many don't, and that many work on stuff that doesn't really matter. This includes many programmers, by the way. I've certainly done more than a fair share of meaningless "bullshit" programming work.
- qppo 6y ago
  It's kind of hard to make a sweeping statement like that. We're seeing costs and benefits of increased productivity/efficiency. My diet consists of fruits and vegetables that my parents could only buy a few times a year when I was a kid. My grandmother made dresses from potato and flour sacks during the war, and my great grandmother sold jams from homegrown fruits because sugar was rationed. I'm typing this comment on a machine manufactured and assembled halfway around the world, designed 30 miles from where I'm sitting, and last week took a medical test that was developed, tested, manufactured and shipped across the country in weeks. To say that we don't benefit from increased productivity is not true - those anecdotes are all examples of how rapid industrialization across the globe and improved communications, design, manufacturing, operations, and strategy have quantifiably improved my life as a human. I also wouldn't say that the boon in productivity demanded more labor. Particularly because the entry of women into the workforce was driven by the Great Inflation (which didn't improve productivity) and the tail end of second wave feminism which had succeeded in changing our society's attitude towards women in the workforce. The decomposition of that barrier in our society begot such productivity in our economy, it didn't respond to the demand for more. But I agree, we're not getting all the benefits of such productivity. At least not all of us. But that's why UBI is probably the future, because eventually all our jobs are going to be automated.

by qppo 6y ago

kalleboo 6y ago

I worry because society has not given us the benefits of increased productivity. We've already massively increased productivity with computerization, but during that same period instead of more leisure time, society has actually demanded MORE working hours (by putting more women to work)

arp242 6y ago
The question is, are those people actually doing useful work which contributes to an increase of happiness or living standards for people? I'd argue that many don't, and that many work on stuff that doesn't really matter. This includes many programmers, by the way. I've certainly done more than a fair share of meaningless "bullshit" programming work.
qppo 6y ago
It's kind of hard to make a sweeping statement like that. We're seeing costs and benefits of increased productivity/efficiency. My diet consists of fruits and vegetables that my parents could only buy a few times a year when I was a kid. My grandmother made dresses from potato and flour sacks during the war, and my great grandmother sold jams from homegrown fruits because sugar was rationed. I'm typing this comment on a machine manufactured and assembled halfway around the world, designed 30 miles from where I'm sitting, and last week took a medical test that was developed, tested, manufactured and shipped across the country in weeks. To say that we don't benefit from increased productivity is not true - those anecdotes are all examples of how rapid industrialization across the globe and improved communications, design, manufacturing, operations, and strategy have quantifiably improved my life as a human. I also wouldn't say that the boon in productivity demanded more labor. Particularly because the entry of women into the workforce was driven by the Great Inflation (which didn't improve productivity) and the tail end of second wave feminism which had succeeded in changing our society's attitude towards women in the workforce. The decomposition of that barrier in our society begot such productivity in our economy, it didn't respond to the demand for more. But I agree, we're not getting all the benefits of such productivity. At least not all of us. But that's why UBI is probably the future, because eventually all our jobs are going to be automated.