6 ms·

The reasons I'd seen for considering a US ban on TikTok were all security related (i.e., various claims to the effect of TikTok collecting data on US citizens f

by nilkn 6y ago

The reasons I'd seen for considering a US ban on TikTok were all security related (i.e., various claims to the effect of TikTok collecting data on US citizens for usage by the CCP). Those reasons, if valid, would seem to remain valid even in the face of your points here.

itake 6y ago
And controlling the content narrative. E.g. pro-china content could be promoted directly to young Americans.
zjaffee 6y ago
Are these valid criticisms? Did everyone forget about the NSA spying scandal a few years back where the US was monitoring huge amounts of internet traffic in Europe on American owned platforms.
- nilkn 6y ago
  I don't know if they're valid. I think my point is structured in such a way that it doesn't matter in this context: those concerns, if they are or were ever valid, are not rendered invalid by the points that the above commenter was making. I don't believe I have the background to comment meaningfully on whether TikTok is an actual security threat to US citizens or whether the US government would be hypocritical in banning TikTok for such a reason. The question of hypocrisy also seems like a separate one to me (i.e., should one not do the correct thing because it would be seen as hypocritical by some?).
- _prototype_ 6y ago
  Would you rather a country that many people around the world wants to migrate to in order to pursue their dreams spying on you (USA), or a country where people are put in concentration camps (China and the Uyghurs) spying on you? I don't know about you, but I prefer the former as lesser of two evils. I see your argument a lot and its quite stupid.
  - patrickaljord 6y ago
    As someone who has family in Syria that was bombed by US and their allies but had never been bombed by China, I'd rather China be spying on me. As far as I know, CCP has never attacked any country out of its borders.
    - wolco 6y ago
      If you are in America from Syria and have a dislike for America because of past bombings I would be more concerned with them over China. As far as never attacked anyone. Of course they have. China is part of that US allies group fighting terrorism in your families homeland. Here is a list for you of all of the conflicts: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_P...
      - patrickaljord 6y ago
        I am not in America so your argument is not valid. As for your link, most of it is about peace keeping missions. The others involve countries that share a border with China. As I said, China has for the most part never attacked countries it didn't share borders with and I don't live in any of these. Even then, they haven't done carpet bombing, used chemical or nuclear weapons against these countries unlike the US.
      - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        Those are almost all internal conflicts within China. The only major foreign wars China has been involved in since the founding of the PRC are the Korean War, the Sino-Indian border conflict, and the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese war. It's been more than 40 years since China was involved in a major foreign conflict.
        wolco 6y ago
        They are part of the war on terror. However you classify that it has been the major conflict over the last 20 years.
- chucksmash 6y ago
  Would a thief not take precautions to avoid having his own home robbed just because he is a thief himself? There are many things countries and people do which they will not accept having done to them in turn.
  - rchaud 6y ago
    True, but if an objective party was reporting on this, I think they would mention that it was in fact a thief taking such precautions, rather than a non-descript local resident.
- wolco 6y ago
  These are valid. It doesn't matter what the US did in Europe here does it? Allowing China to spy should be stopped regardless.
- brendoelfrendo 6y ago
  Of course they're valid criticisms. The US can behave hypocritically and still be correct.
notmyfriend 6y ago
They don't need anything more than a single Chinese national who they can blackmail to be able to get what they want. A quick meeting to the persons family to make sure they get the message its all it needs. The CCP has leverage on any Chinese national who still has family in China.

by nilkn 6y ago

itake 6y ago

And controlling the content narrative. E.g. pro-china content could be promoted directly to young Americans.

zjaffee 6y ago

Are these valid criticisms? Did everyone forget about the NSA spying scandal a few years back where the US was monitoring huge amounts of internet traffic in Europe on American owned platforms.

nilkn 6y ago
I don't know if they're valid. I think my point is structured in such a way that it doesn't matter in this context: those concerns, if they are or were ever valid, are not rendered invalid by the points that the above commenter was making. I don't believe I have the background to comment meaningfully on whether TikTok is an actual security threat to US citizens or whether the US government would be hypocritical in banning TikTok for such a reason. The question of hypocrisy also seems like a separate one to me (i.e., should one not do the correct thing because it would be seen as hypocritical by some?).
_prototype_ 6y ago
Would you rather a country that many people around the world wants to migrate to in order to pursue their dreams spying on you (USA), or a country where people are put in concentration camps (China and the Uyghurs) spying on you? I don't know about you, but I prefer the former as lesser of two evils. I see your argument a lot and its quite stupid.
- patrickaljord 6y ago
  As someone who has family in Syria that was bombed by US and their allies but had never been bombed by China, I'd rather China be spying on me. As far as I know, CCP has never attacked any country out of its borders.
  - wolco 6y ago
    If you are in America from Syria and have a dislike for America because of past bombings I would be more concerned with them over China. As far as never attacked anyone. Of course they have. China is part of that US allies group fighting terrorism in your families homeland. Here is a list for you of all of the conflicts: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_P...
    - patrickaljord 6y ago
      I am not in America so your argument is not valid. As for your link, most of it is about peace keeping missions. The others involve countries that share a border with China. As I said, China has for the most part never attacked countries it didn't share borders with and I don't live in any of these. Even then, they haven't done carpet bombing, used chemical or nuclear weapons against these countries unlike the US.
    - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
      Those are almost all internal conflicts within China. The only major foreign wars China has been involved in since the founding of the PRC are the Korean War, the Sino-Indian border conflict, and the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese war. It's been more than 40 years since China was involved in a major foreign conflict.
      - wolco 6y ago
        They are part of the war on terror. However you classify that it has been the major conflict over the last 20 years.
chucksmash 6y ago
Would a thief not take precautions to avoid having his own home robbed just because he is a thief himself? There are many things countries and people do which they will not accept having done to them in turn.
- rchaud 6y ago
  True, but if an objective party was reporting on this, I think they would mention that it was in fact a thief taking such precautions, rather than a non-descript local resident.
wolco 6y ago
These are valid. It doesn't matter what the US did in Europe here does it? Allowing China to spy should be stopped regardless.
brendoelfrendo 6y ago
Of course they're valid criticisms. The US can behave hypocritically and still be correct.

notmyfriend 6y ago

They don't need anything more than a single Chinese national who they can blackmail to be able to get what they want. A quick meeting to the persons family to make sure they get the message its all it needs. The CCP has leverage on any Chinese national who still has family in China.