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The slave labor that the USSR used was abhorrent. According to this study [0] the gulag deaths were approximately 830,000 from 1934 to 1953. It is important to

The slave labor that the USSR used was abhorrent. According to this study [0] the gulag deaths were approximately 830,000 from 1934 to 1953. It is important to know however that 70% of the deaths occurred between 1941 and 1944 (included) so they can kinda be attributed to difficulties from War Period. Also, it's important to note that antibiotics didn't become available until after WW2. To put things into perspective, I have an interesting comparison for you. Using the same source as above for the USSR, and this report [1] from the Bureau of Justice Statistics we can say that Mortality in the gulag in 1953 (236 deaths per 100,000 prisoners) was lower than mortality in US prisons today, both in state prisons (303 deaths per 100,000 prisoners) and federal prisons (252 deaths per 100,000 prisoners). Hope it's useful. [0]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2166597?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3Ac7df89fb86f7cdb22472254937584567&seq=33#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/2166597?read-now=1&refreqid=exc... [1]: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6766 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6766

haberman 6y ago
What is that comparison meant to show?
- femiagbabiaka 6y ago
  that atrocities are not the domain of any particular political or economic ideology or system, but rather a danger that we need to fight against actively everywhere, and now.
  - haberman 6y ago
    According to the BJS data sheet linked in grandparent, the leading causes of death in prison for 2016 are: - Cancer (1,128) - Heart Disease (1,025) - All Other Illnesses (525) - Liver Disease (260) Cancer and Heart Disease are also the leading causes of death for people not in prison. I don't think this is at all convincing evidence of an "atrocity."
    - femiagbabiaka 6y ago
      What's the threshold for when prison deaths cross over to atrocity? For me it is 1 preventable death. Healthcare in prisons is terrible: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-prison-was-built-to-hold-1500-inmates-it-had-over-2000-coronavirus-cases https://www.propublica.org/article/the-prison-was-built-to-h... Taken as categories, 44% of people in prison die as a result of illness, 31% as a result of suicide. (both sourced from BJS still) Both avoidable with the right funding, and yes, atrocities. If we're going to have a justice system that lives up to what it claims, a side effect of a prison sentence shouldn't be death.
clon 6y ago
A close friend's father was one of the persons to return from Gulag. He was one of the few people that buried the rest of the camp, due to him being immune to whatever disease that killed everyone else. Survived, came back and conceived my friend, all thanks to a lucky mutation somewhere.

haberman 6y ago

What is that comparison meant to show?

femiagbabiaka 6y ago
that atrocities are not the domain of any particular political or economic ideology or system, but rather a danger that we need to fight against actively everywhere, and now.
- haberman 6y ago
  According to the BJS data sheet linked in grandparent, the leading causes of death in prison for 2016 are: - Cancer (1,128) - Heart Disease (1,025) - All Other Illnesses (525) - Liver Disease (260) Cancer and Heart Disease are also the leading causes of death for people not in prison. I don't think this is at all convincing evidence of an "atrocity."
  - femiagbabiaka 6y ago
    What's the threshold for when prison deaths cross over to atrocity? For me it is 1 preventable death. Healthcare in prisons is terrible: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-prison-was-built-to-hold-1500-inmates-it-had-over-2000-coronavirus-cases https://www.propublica.org/article/the-prison-was-built-to-h... Taken as categories, 44% of people in prison die as a result of illness, 31% as a result of suicide. (both sourced from BJS still) Both avoidable with the right funding, and yes, atrocities. If we're going to have a justice system that lives up to what it claims, a side effect of a prison sentence shouldn't be death.

clon 6y ago

A close friend's father was one of the persons to return from Gulag. He was one of the few people that buried the rest of the camp, due to him being immune to whatever disease that killed everyone else. Survived, came back and conceived my friend, all thanks to a lucky mutation somewhere.