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> I'm honestly astonished that people like Slobodan Milosevic were prosecuted, but Kissinger hasn't spent the past 30 years in a prison cell. In your opinion w

> I'm honestly astonished that people like Slobodan Milosevic were prosecuted, but Kissinger hasn't spent the past 30 years in a prison cell. In your opinion what did Kissinger do that amounts to genocide of his own people, not to mention the string of assassinations of his domestic opponents?

walrus01 6y ago
The international war crimes court is not limited to only persons who have committed genocide against their own people.
- rumanator 6y ago
  You're the one who decided to explicitly compare Kissinger with Milosevic. Milosevic was trialed for his role in he Bosnian genocide, among other war crimes. If you cannot understand why Milosevic was on trial but Kissinger wasn't then please explain, in your own word, what did Kissinger do that was worse than genocide of his own people.
  - walrus01 6y ago
    Milosevic was tried not for genocide against his own group of people, but an opposing ethnic/religious group in a civil war. Are you trying to say that because the area where the conflict took place was within the boundaries of the former state of Yugoslavia, the people his forces killed were "his own people"? Perhaps you may wish to familiarize yourself with the ethnic and religious differences between the Serbian forces commanded by Milosevic and the persons they killed.
    - zarkov99 6y ago
      I’m curious as well, what did Kissinger do that puts in the same category as Milosevic?
      - walrus01 6y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu "In his diary in March 1969, Nixon's chief of staff, H. R. Haldeman, noted that the final decision to carpet bomb Cambodia 'was made at a meeting in the Oval Office Sunday afternoon, after the church service'. In his diary on 17 March 1969, Haldeman wrote: Historic day. K[issinger]'s "Operation Breakfast" finally came off at 2:00 pm our time. K really excited, as is P[resident]. And the next day: K's "Operation Breakfast" a great success. He came beaming in with the report, very productive. A lot more secondaries than had been expected. Confirmed early intelligence. Probably no reaction for a few days, if ever. "
        rumanator 6y ago
        > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu Did you missed the part of your own source where it says that the operation targetted North Vietnamese Army bases within Cambodja? Does that count as a genocide at all, let alone a worse genocide than Milosevic's Bosnian genocide?
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > Milosevic was tried not for genocide against his own group of people, but an opposing ethnic/religious group in a civil war. Wrong. Milosevic was trialed for his role on the Bosnian genocide, which included the assassinations of Bosnian serbs. Even if you believe that although Milosevic was president of Yugoslavia then no breakaway Yugoslav republic can be counted as his people, you can't turn a blind eye to Bosnian serbs.
sacred_numbers 6y ago
I don't know enough about Kissinger to have a strong opinion about him, but I think the idea is that Kissinger got away with a lot of awful stuff because he was responsible for a lot of horrendous things done to other peoples. If Hitler had left the Jews in Germany and Austria alone and just killed the Jews in Poland would that have made things any better? Again, I am not taking a stance since I haven't done enough research, just explaining why theoretically someone could think that Kissinger committed crimes against humanity without killing any Americans or even violating American laws.
andrepd 6y ago
Genocide of other people.
- rumanator 6y ago
  Could you please point out which genocide are you talking about?
  - andrepd 6y ago
    I will talk about one in particular which hits close to home, since I have people in my extended family which were killed there. The genocide in Timor-Leste, which killed 150,000 to 200,000 people. If that doesn't seem that much at first glance, the population of Timor in 1975 was 688,000. That invasion was: approved or even suggested by the US (Kissinger and Ford met with Suharto on the eve of the invasion to give the OK), financed* by the US, with troops trained by the US and armed by the US. The reason? The people of that small, freshly liberated country were on the verge of holding their first democratic elections, and dangerously close to choosing a left-wing party to govern them, of their own free will. That being said perusing his wikipedia page should give you many things to read about.
    - walrus01 6y ago
      I am not sure how many Americans are even aware of how extensively the USA supported Suharto militarily, no matter what he did, because he was supposedly anti communist.
      - DubiousPusher 6y ago
        As well as Pinochet, the Contras and Trujillo among others.
        walrus01 6y ago
        Also Noriega, until he grew a bit too big of an ego and decided to start doing things without checking with his handlers first. And of course Zia al-Haq in Pakistan.

walrus01 6y ago

The international war crimes court is not limited to only persons who have committed genocide against their own people.

rumanator 6y ago
You're the one who decided to explicitly compare Kissinger with Milosevic. Milosevic was trialed for his role in he Bosnian genocide, among other war crimes. If you cannot understand why Milosevic was on trial but Kissinger wasn't then please explain, in your own word, what did Kissinger do that was worse than genocide of his own people.
- walrus01 6y ago
  Milosevic was tried not for genocide against his own group of people, but an opposing ethnic/religious group in a civil war. Are you trying to say that because the area where the conflict took place was within the boundaries of the former state of Yugoslavia, the people his forces killed were "his own people"? Perhaps you may wish to familiarize yourself with the ethnic and religious differences between the Serbian forces commanded by Milosevic and the persons they killed.
  - zarkov99 6y ago
    I’m curious as well, what did Kissinger do that puts in the same category as Milosevic?
    - walrus01 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu "In his diary in March 1969, Nixon's chief of staff, H. R. Haldeman, noted that the final decision to carpet bomb Cambodia 'was made at a meeting in the Oval Office Sunday afternoon, after the church service'. In his diary on 17 March 1969, Haldeman wrote: Historic day. K[issinger]'s "Operation Breakfast" finally came off at 2:00 pm our time. K really excited, as is P[resident]. And the next day: K's "Operation Breakfast" a great success. He came beaming in with the report, very productive. A lot more secondaries than had been expected. Confirmed early intelligence. Probably no reaction for a few days, if ever. "
      - rumanator 6y ago
        > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu Did you missed the part of your own source where it says that the operation targetted North Vietnamese Army bases within Cambodja? Does that count as a genocide at all, let alone a worse genocide than Milosevic's Bosnian genocide?
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > Milosevic was tried not for genocide against his own group of people, but an opposing ethnic/religious group in a civil war. Wrong. Milosevic was trialed for his role on the Bosnian genocide, which included the assassinations of Bosnian serbs. Even if you believe that although Milosevic was president of Yugoslavia then no breakaway Yugoslav republic can be counted as his people, you can't turn a blind eye to Bosnian serbs.

sacred_numbers 6y ago

I don't know enough about Kissinger to have a strong opinion about him, but I think the idea is that Kissinger got away with a lot of awful stuff because he was responsible for a lot of horrendous things done to other peoples. If Hitler had left the Jews in Germany and Austria alone and just killed the Jews in Poland would that have made things any better? Again, I am not taking a stance since I haven't done enough research, just explaining why theoretically someone could think that Kissinger committed crimes against humanity without killing any Americans or even violating American laws.

andrepd 6y ago

Genocide of other people.

rumanator 6y ago
Could you please point out which genocide are you talking about?
- andrepd 6y ago
  I will talk about one in particular which hits close to home, since I have people in my extended family which were killed there. The genocide in Timor-Leste, which killed 150,000 to 200,000 people. If that doesn't seem that much at first glance, the population of Timor in 1975 was 688,000. That invasion was: approved or even suggested by the US (Kissinger and Ford met with Suharto on the eve of the invasion to give the OK), financed* by the US, with troops trained by the US and armed by the US. The reason? The people of that small, freshly liberated country were on the verge of holding their first democratic elections, and dangerously close to choosing a left-wing party to govern them, of their own free will. That being said perusing his wikipedia page should give you many things to read about.
  - walrus01 6y ago
    I am not sure how many Americans are even aware of how extensively the USA supported Suharto militarily, no matter what he did, because he was supposedly anti communist.
    - DubiousPusher 6y ago
      As well as Pinochet, the Contras and Trujillo among others.
      - walrus01 6y ago
        Also Noriega, until he grew a bit too big of an ego and decided to start doing things without checking with his handlers first. And of course Zia al-Haq in Pakistan.