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Legitimately confused by this. Is it really common that truly non-technical, as in can't write code at all, people are managing Software Engineering teams? I've

Legitimately confused by this. Is it really common that truly non-technical, as in can't write code at all, people are managing Software Engineering teams? I've certainly never seen it, at least until you get to Senior Exec levels of leadership. I've only been in the industry for <10 yrs but I still find it hard to believe it's that common.

vikramkr 6y ago
There are non software companies with software teams
- devalgo 6y ago
  Sure, I work at one. But my manager is a former tech lead/architect who writes code everyday and he reports to a former Startup CTO with a CS Degree from UIUC. Are English Majors with no tech chops seriously managing engineers in 2020?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ciceryadam 6y ago
    MBAs, mostly.
- enitihas 6y ago
  Yes, and there the software managers normally report to non software executives. Engineers reporting to non software managers who are not at a director or VP level is a bad idea.
ciceryadam 6y ago
Yep, it's happening. Even worse, I've dealt with Architects with minimal IT training.
Aperocky 6y ago
2 observations. Writing code != understanding computer science. I know plenty of people who had coded some linear procedural code in matlab for school who I would absolutely not say that they 'understand coding'. I would argue that being CS literate is where you have a logical framework of how code work together to create software - knowing the general idea of encapsulation etc. Technical managers at the front level get 'cut off' when a reporting chain immediately above consisted of someone who are truly non-technical. You can have 3 software engineering teams each under technical managers, but then they all report to an MBA grad with no technical history at all. Which anecdotally resulted in some decision making that I would characterize as strange from my software engineering perspective.
- dathinab 6y ago
  another observation from me: "practical understanding of software systems" != "understanding of computer since" Through having done CS helps a lot in being flexible enough in how you thing about (technical) things. (Disclaimer: The last thing can be easily misunderstood, the thing is when you do CS you have to do a lot of brain gymnastic about all kinds of things like e.g. that one thing can be seen as two seemingly unrelated things but still be the same in a given context, but not in a other seemingly nearly equivalent context.)
res0nat0r 6y ago
Absolutely.
dathinab 6y ago
I was in this situation. The result was: - No one really managed any software teams. - The manager did just ended up as a proxy between higher management which create friction. (E.g. in aspects like what features are viable to add in this year and which are not.) - The manager lost practically all authority (and later one all trust). Generally a really annoying situation not benefiting anyone. Through then a lot of other things went wrong too in that company.

vikramkr 6y ago

There are non software companies with software teams

devalgo 6y ago
Sure, I work at one. But my manager is a former tech lead/architect who writes code everyday and he reports to a former Startup CTO with a CS Degree from UIUC. Are English Majors with no tech chops seriously managing engineers in 2020?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ciceryadam 6y ago
  MBAs, mostly.
enitihas 6y ago
Yes, and there the software managers normally report to non software executives. Engineers reporting to non software managers who are not at a director or VP level is a bad idea.

ciceryadam 6y ago

Yep, it's happening. Even worse, I've dealt with Architects with minimal IT training.

Aperocky 6y ago

2 observations. Writing code != understanding computer science. I know plenty of people who had coded some linear procedural code in matlab for school who I would absolutely not say that they 'understand coding'. I would argue that being CS literate is where you have a logical framework of how code work together to create software - knowing the general idea of encapsulation etc. Technical managers at the front level get 'cut off' when a reporting chain immediately above consisted of someone who are truly non-technical. You can have 3 software engineering teams each under technical managers, but then they all report to an MBA grad with no technical history at all. Which anecdotally resulted in some decision making that I would characterize as strange from my software engineering perspective.

dathinab 6y ago
another observation from me: "practical understanding of software systems" != "understanding of computer since" Through having done CS helps a lot in being flexible enough in how you thing about (technical) things. (Disclaimer: The last thing can be easily misunderstood, the thing is when you do CS you have to do a lot of brain gymnastic about all kinds of things like e.g. that one thing can be seen as two seemingly unrelated things but still be the same in a given context, but not in a other seemingly nearly equivalent context.)

res0nat0r 6y ago

Absolutely.

dathinab 6y ago

I was in this situation. The result was: - No one really managed any software teams. - The manager did just ended up as a proxy between higher management which create friction. (E.g. in aspects like what features are viable to add in this year and which are not.) - The manager lost practically all authority (and later one all trust). Generally a really annoying situation not benefiting anyone. Through then a lot of other things went wrong too in that company.