5 ms·

I'd want to say: "Good thing they don't have access to any of that", but unfortunately, one place Steam has not innovated at all is security: It's very good at

I'd want to say: "Good thing they don't have access to any of that", but unfortunately, one place Steam has not innovated at all is security: It's very good at installing games on your computer, but those games can mostly do whatever they want once they're there. Microsoft got a lot of hate (some deserved, some not) for pushing the Microsoft Store and UWP as a potential game distribution platform (originally with some exclusives from the Xbox side of the world), but for all its faults, it used sandboxing.

falcolas 6y ago
It's ironic you post this after Bethesda installed a root-kit anti-cheat for this very game (yes, it has since been updated, but not automatically removed if it was already there). So, yeah, they may have very well collected that data from your hard drive. EDIT: Brain flatulance, s/DRM/anti-cheat/g
- dx87 6y ago
  It wasn't even DRM, it was anti-cheat that only ran when you launched the game, and it's not like it was a secret that it was added in an update. Your comment is pure FUD.
  - ubercow13 6y ago
    Anti-cheat is even worse. There is a peverse incentive for the publisher to spy on your computer that isn't there so much with DRM. You can imagine them thinking it would be a good idea to upload your 'suspicious' files that might be cheat-related to their servers for analysis.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    It was not a secret, but it certainly caused an uproar, which prompted Bethesda to scale it back dramatically. Being in ring-0, it has access to all contents on disk, and all contents in memory. What is actually sent up to Bethesda's servers could be, quite literally, anything on your system. It's why Sony's rootkit DRM (got it right this time) was so poorly received a decade and a half ago - because you, as the computer's owner, can't control what it does or isolate its access.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  DRM is definitely a big offender, the other one off hand that is amazing is anti-cheat systems. Both types of technology for PC games basically are predicated on the concept of "if we monitor everything it's remotely possible to monitor about your PC, we can detect if you do something bad with it". It's probable that Steam would not be remotely as successful if it interfered with DRM and anti-cheat strategies on privacy or security grounds.
strombofulous 6y ago
I have lots of friends who play shooting games semi-competitvely (they're all in the very high ranks of overwatch/csgo/etc). They are all very, very, very excited about Valorant's ring-0 anticheat. Lots of people want features that can't be achieved with a sandbox.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  I definitely understand that. Cheaters have pushed me out of most first-person shooters I'd enjoyed. But I also have significant concerns about game companies having that much access to my general-use computer. Perhaps the solution here is not to do personal/sensitive work on gaming machines, but then we're right back to having separate game consoles...
  - jhardy54 6y ago
    Alternatively: Only play video games with people in your trust network. Friends, friends of friends, etc., so that you have some recourse against griefing and cheating.
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      This doesn't really help: I don't have a choice on whether or not my shooter of choice implements anti-cheat. Perhaps an ideal scenario would let a player choose whether or not to enable a game's anti-cheat, but that it'd be required for certain matchmaking and (obviously) competitive features. So that I can opt out if I'm just trying the game casually or just playing with friends in a private room, but can enable it if it's something I intend to play seriously and am invested in enough to give deep access to my system?
- weehoo 6y ago
  Ring zero doesn’t prevent cheats stored in spoofed input devices https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d1jz8qbzfIk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d1jz8qbzfIk
  - 6y ago

falcolas 6y ago

It's ironic you post this after Bethesda installed a root-kit anti-cheat for this very game (yes, it has since been updated, but not automatically removed if it was already there). So, yeah, they may have very well collected that data from your hard drive. EDIT: Brain flatulance, s/DRM/anti-cheat/g

dx87 6y ago
It wasn't even DRM, it was anti-cheat that only ran when you launched the game, and it's not like it was a secret that it was added in an update. Your comment is pure FUD.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  Anti-cheat is even worse. There is a peverse incentive for the publisher to spy on your computer that isn't there so much with DRM. You can imagine them thinking it would be a good idea to upload your 'suspicious' files that might be cheat-related to their servers for analysis.
- falcolas 6y ago
  It was not a secret, but it certainly caused an uproar, which prompted Bethesda to scale it back dramatically. Being in ring-0, it has access to all contents on disk, and all contents in memory. What is actually sent up to Bethesda's servers could be, quite literally, anything on your system. It's why Sony's rootkit DRM (got it right this time) was so poorly received a decade and a half ago - because you, as the computer's owner, can't control what it does or isolate its access.
ocdtrekkie 6y ago
DRM is definitely a big offender, the other one off hand that is amazing is anti-cheat systems. Both types of technology for PC games basically are predicated on the concept of "if we monitor everything it's remotely possible to monitor about your PC, we can detect if you do something bad with it". It's probable that Steam would not be remotely as successful if it interfered with DRM and anti-cheat strategies on privacy or security grounds.

strombofulous 6y ago

I have lots of friends who play shooting games semi-competitvely (they're all in the very high ranks of overwatch/csgo/etc). They are all very, very, very excited about Valorant's ring-0 anticheat. Lots of people want features that can't be achieved with a sandbox.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
I definitely understand that. Cheaters have pushed me out of most first-person shooters I'd enjoyed. But I also have significant concerns about game companies having that much access to my general-use computer. Perhaps the solution here is not to do personal/sensitive work on gaming machines, but then we're right back to having separate game consoles...
- jhardy54 6y ago
  Alternatively: Only play video games with people in your trust network. Friends, friends of friends, etc., so that you have some recourse against griefing and cheating.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    This doesn't really help: I don't have a choice on whether or not my shooter of choice implements anti-cheat. Perhaps an ideal scenario would let a player choose whether or not to enable a game's anti-cheat, but that it'd be required for certain matchmaking and (obviously) competitive features. So that I can opt out if I'm just trying the game casually or just playing with friends in a private room, but can enable it if it's something I intend to play seriously and am invested in enough to give deep access to my system?
weehoo 6y ago
Ring zero doesn’t prevent cheats stored in spoofed input devices https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d1jz8qbzfIk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d1jz8qbzfIk
- 6y ago