4 ms·

Oh this reminds me of what went from one of the most infuriating questions I would get asked by investors to one where I almost wanted to bait them into asking

Oh this reminds me of what went from one of the most infuriating questions I would get asked by investors to one where I almost wanted to bait them into asking it... "Why/how is this worth X dollars/time? I know someone who says they can do it in a week." To which, I eventually learned to reply: "Wow, well... In that case, let me shoot you an article on how to build a Twitter clone in 15 minutes. [awkward pause while I smile at them] There's a lot more than just literal lines of code that goes into building a successful software product."

el_oni 6y ago
It reminds me of a pycon talk [0] which, while i dont agree with the whole thing, has the message "we ship features, not code". That also reminds me of "when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure". LOC is a decent measure, but features are our targets [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9pEzgHorH0&t=1235s https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9pEzgHorH0&t=1235s
- k3liutZu 6y ago
  > LOC is a decent measure, but features are our targets Only if your measure of success is tied to fewer LOC.
  - greggman3 6y ago
    that just sounds like it will have different unintended consequences like making every line as terse, complicated and unreadable as possible just to get it down to less LOC.
  - el_oni 6y ago
    I'm not sure I got across what I mean. Ones target should be shipping features. If you use 10k LOC to get a feature out, or 500 lines of more concise, optimised code, what matters is the feature. If you have LOC targets to meet you are incentivised to produce the former rather than the latter. My point is that a high number of lines isn't as important as good features. Though the two can get conflated
dboreham 6y ago
Gaslighting occurs in the workplace too.
quickthrower2 6y ago
Nice comeback
- distrill 6y ago
  it's a good point but pretty cringe tbh
  - kijin 6y ago
    I prefer to just tell the client to go with the guy who says they can do it in a week. Often, the client returns to me in a few months' time, having wasted a lot of time and money on the other guy and equipped with a better understanding of why they require my services.
    - LilBytes 6y ago
      Had a similar experience selling my car. It was an old Audi S3, like, 2011 model. Had a guy tell me the car was in better condition and the asking price was less than what I had listed. My car was listed at $10K AUD and that car was listed at $8K. Them: "Why is your car listed at your price, and not matching this car?" Me: "Well for starters, that cars in Adelaide, we're in Brisbane. If you want to go to Adelaide to check that car out and find out it's been in a bender and had most of it's body fixed and the listing avoids that. Be my guest." Them: "I doubt that, I think you're asking too much. Will you match that price?" Me: "No." Them: "Why are you wasting my time, I should buy that one just to annoy you.' Me: "You fucking do that then, laters" I sold my car the week after this for the price I wanted. Straight up https://www.reddit.com/r/choosingbeggars https://www.reddit.com/r/choosingbeggars material.
    - 72deluxe 6y ago
      This is true. It is less pain for you in the long run to be free of people who believe magic occurs in nanoseconds overnight.

el_oni 6y ago

It reminds me of a pycon talk [0] which, while i dont agree with the whole thing, has the message "we ship features, not code". That also reminds me of "when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure". LOC is a decent measure, but features are our targets [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9pEzgHorH0&t=1235s https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9pEzgHorH0&t=1235s

k3liutZu 6y ago
> LOC is a decent measure, but features are our targets Only if your measure of success is tied to fewer LOC.
- greggman3 6y ago
  that just sounds like it will have different unintended consequences like making every line as terse, complicated and unreadable as possible just to get it down to less LOC.
- el_oni 6y ago
  I'm not sure I got across what I mean. Ones target should be shipping features. If you use 10k LOC to get a feature out, or 500 lines of more concise, optimised code, what matters is the feature. If you have LOC targets to meet you are incentivised to produce the former rather than the latter. My point is that a high number of lines isn't as important as good features. Though the two can get conflated

dboreham 6y ago

Gaslighting occurs in the workplace too.

quickthrower2 6y ago

Nice comeback

distrill 6y ago
it's a good point but pretty cringe tbh
- kijin 6y ago
  I prefer to just tell the client to go with the guy who says they can do it in a week. Often, the client returns to me in a few months' time, having wasted a lot of time and money on the other guy and equipped with a better understanding of why they require my services.
  - LilBytes 6y ago
    Had a similar experience selling my car. It was an old Audi S3, like, 2011 model. Had a guy tell me the car was in better condition and the asking price was less than what I had listed. My car was listed at $10K AUD and that car was listed at $8K. Them: "Why is your car listed at your price, and not matching this car?" Me: "Well for starters, that cars in Adelaide, we're in Brisbane. If you want to go to Adelaide to check that car out and find out it's been in a bender and had most of it's body fixed and the listing avoids that. Be my guest." Them: "I doubt that, I think you're asking too much. Will you match that price?" Me: "No." Them: "Why are you wasting my time, I should buy that one just to annoy you.' Me: "You fucking do that then, laters" I sold my car the week after this for the price I wanted. Straight up https://www.reddit.com/r/choosingbeggars https://www.reddit.com/r/choosingbeggars material.
  - 72deluxe 6y ago
    This is true. It is less pain for you in the long run to be free of people who believe magic occurs in nanoseconds overnight.