3 ms·

> However, because trans rights, LGBT, race, etc. has been so profusely politicized, it's become a third rail. Making fun of a trans person and an Irish person

by fivre 6y ago

> However, because trans rights, LGBT, race, etc. has been so profusely politicized, it's become a third rail. Making fun of a trans person and an Irish person are, for whatever reason, not on the same playing field any more. I'm not sure what the solution is, but let's not pretend there's no problem. No, you're right, they're not on the same playing field, though saying that they are because one issue is "politicized" is, apologies, somewhat laughable. Do you know many people (and for clarification, this is from an American perspective) who have, in recent history, been assaulted out of the blue, pushed out of their homes or jobs, or bullied to the point of self-harm because they're of Irish ancestry? How long ago was it that being of Irish ancestry meant that your employer could come out and say "sorry, no fucken micks in my shop, gtfo" or that the state could deny you basic rights afforded to most citizens with the full force of the law on their side, and how long ago was that the case for the LGBTQ community? These things are different playing fields because they're literally different playing fields: the actual broader issues at hand, in the present, are very different. Losing sight of history isn't the goal here--it's stupid and dangerous to ignore history, full stop--but it's doubly stupid to blind oneself to present.

dvt 6y ago
This is a silly argument, because it runs into a wall via a very simple reductio ad absurdum: it's the year 2000, and I made my career making fun of Muslims.. they wear funny things on their heads, do a weird carpet prayer, etc. Uh-oh, now it's 2002. Muslims are being persecuted again in some Southern states because of 9/11. Now, two years later, according to your very own present-day-contextualized-moral-joke-compass, you can't joke about Muslims anymore. When can I resume my comedy career joking about Muslims? 2005? 2006? Before or after Charlie Hebdo? The Holocaust was a pretty big deal, can we joke about Jews yet? Or does comedy have a cooldown period?
- fivre 6y ago
  Are you Muslim? When you, or your hypothetical strawman comic make fun of them, are you punching up or down? To not mince words here, if your comedy career was wholly dependent on making fun of Muslim cultural practices that have existed for millennia before you were born, in America, a country that totally had no relationship with the Middle East or history of anti-Muslim bigotry prior to 9/11, and you further cannot possibly even conceive of continuing it with some other variety of humor, it probably shouldn't resume. Quit that particular hobby and pick up a history book.
  - dvt 6y ago
    > Are you Muslim? When you, or your hypothetical strawman comic make fun of them, are you punching up or down? I'm not sure why this matters at all. In fact, it's just another red herring, as you provide no counter-arguments. I think that the case for free speech (my God, especially in comedy) is pretty strong, whether you're a Muslim comic making fun of Muslims or an Asian comic making fun of Muslims. This isn't a strawman, this is the entire argument: is it okay to make fun of people? I contend that it is.

by fivre 6y ago

dvt 6y ago

This is a silly argument, because it runs into a wall via a very simple reductio ad absurdum: it's the year 2000, and I made my career making fun of Muslims.. they wear funny things on their heads, do a weird carpet prayer, etc. Uh-oh, now it's 2002. Muslims are being persecuted again in some Southern states because of 9/11. Now, two years later, according to your very own present-day-contextualized-moral-joke-compass, you can't joke about Muslims anymore. When can I resume my comedy career joking about Muslims? 2005? 2006? Before or after Charlie Hebdo? The Holocaust was a pretty big deal, can we joke about Jews yet? Or does comedy have a cooldown period?

fivre 6y ago
Are you Muslim? When you, or your hypothetical strawman comic make fun of them, are you punching up or down? To not mince words here, if your comedy career was wholly dependent on making fun of Muslim cultural practices that have existed for millennia before you were born, in America, a country that totally had no relationship with the Middle East or history of anti-Muslim bigotry prior to 9/11, and you further cannot possibly even conceive of continuing it with some other variety of humor, it probably shouldn't resume. Quit that particular hobby and pick up a history book.
- dvt 6y ago
  > Are you Muslim? When you, or your hypothetical strawman comic make fun of them, are you punching up or down? I'm not sure why this matters at all. In fact, it's just another red herring, as you provide no counter-arguments. I think that the case for free speech (my God, especially in comedy) is pretty strong, whether you're a Muslim comic making fun of Muslims or an Asian comic making fun of Muslims. This isn't a strawman, this is the entire argument: is it okay to make fun of people? I contend that it is.