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> It is true that highly knowledgeable people know that Musk is an idiot conman The same "highly knowledgable people" who have been shorting TSLA and parroting

> It is true that highly knowledgeable people know that Musk is an idiot conman The same "highly knowledgable people" who have been shorting TSLA and parroting that the company is going broke any moment now, surely. I'm actually surprised people aren't ashamed to write such utter nonsense in a place like HN.

hef19898 6y ago
Well, shorting Tesla was a bet. As was investing in it. A bet that had serious foundations, with Tesla potentially running out of money.
ojnabieoot 6y ago
Look I really don't have a dog in the $TSLA or Tesla fight - I have no investments in the stock market and due to a disability I cannot drive a car. My grievance is with celebrity CEO worship, and in giving CEO credit for labor's accomplishments (which is particularly egregious in the case of SpaceX). Being an idiot conman and being a technical genius are not mutually exclusive. And clearly being an idiot conman and being the CEO of a valuable company aren't mutually exclusive. Musk's idiotic conning has repeatedly gotten Tesla into serious legal trouble, including running a con - and it's a plain con job - about Tesla's autonomous vehicle capabilities. I know I am being mean to Elon by calling him an idiot and if I were trying to be neutral I might say "recklessly dishonest." But facts are facts.
- lazyjones 6y ago
  > I know I am being mean to Elon by calling him an idiot [...] But facts are facts. You are not being mean, just silly. Elon clearly isn't an "idiot" however you stretch the meaning of the word, he's a highly capable and successful man and has demonstrated repeatedly his skill, both in engineering and entrepreneurship. And your opinion isn't a fact.
  - ojnabieoot 6y ago
    I am copying another comment of mine to address this. The point is that I am calling Musk an idiot because he has a long history of being an idiot. The comment was more addressing him also being an obvious con artist, but I think his idiocy shines through. ~~~ [...]I am not denying that he is talented and he probably has a > 105 IQ. The Autopilot controversy is just a straight con job, and a very stupid one. The BS about the $420 stock price was a horrendously stupid con job. His disinformation mongering about coronavirus - when he is smart enough to know the truth - is also a con job, both for his fans and his workers. Deliberately under-counting workers injuries at Tesla plants is conning safety regulators - it's not as dumb as Elon's other cons, but it's a con. Removing safety markers because Elon doesn't like them aesthetically is maybe not a con job but it is remarkably idiotic. The PR-motivated stuff about Musk engineering a solution to those kids trapped in Thailand - straight-up con job, and one that blew up in his face due to his idiotic and narcissitic use of Twitter. Hyperloop (remember that?) was always a con job, and one that was so transparently stupid that nobody but Musk could have gotten away with it. I could go on. The point is that I am calling Musk an "idiot conman" because of a) his well-documented affinity for conning his customers, fans, investors, and government agencies b) his well-documented acts of being a huge idiot, including in his planning and execution of most of the above con jobs
AgloeDreams 6y ago
In fairness, the company set incredible records for fundraising and lines of credit every quarter to offset massive losses, ignores basic safety concerns in production, ships beta software, sold still non-existing products ( Roadster 2, Semi, Autopilot LV5) with a promise they would ship them, took reservations for cars at false prices they would eventually never ship or make hard to get [35K model 3 which was briefly sold, $39K Model Y which they cancelled in favor of a base $45K Model Y, $40K Cybertruck which they don't even know how big it will be or if it will pass any safety tests] and then used reservations numbers to leverage raising capital. If Tesla acted like a normal responsible company, they should have been out of cash like all the nay-sayers said. Instead they frauded and scammed their way alive.
- hef19898 6y ago
  That is a pretty good summary. And also where the hype comes in. Every other company or CEO would get nailed to the wall for that, Tesla not so much. It also shows how VC money and hype can distort competition. Every EV company out there is not just competing with ICEs but also Tesla's inflated pockets. Which, IMHO, stifles innovation in that sector.

hef19898 6y ago

Well, shorting Tesla was a bet. As was investing in it. A bet that had serious foundations, with Tesla potentially running out of money.

ojnabieoot 6y ago

Look I really don't have a dog in the $TSLA or Tesla fight - I have no investments in the stock market and due to a disability I cannot drive a car. My grievance is with celebrity CEO worship, and in giving CEO credit for labor's accomplishments (which is particularly egregious in the case of SpaceX). Being an idiot conman and being a technical genius are not mutually exclusive. And clearly being an idiot conman and being the CEO of a valuable company aren't mutually exclusive. Musk's idiotic conning has repeatedly gotten Tesla into serious legal trouble, including running a con - and it's a plain con job - about Tesla's autonomous vehicle capabilities. I know I am being mean to Elon by calling him an idiot and if I were trying to be neutral I might say "recklessly dishonest." But facts are facts.

lazyjones 6y ago
> I know I am being mean to Elon by calling him an idiot [...] But facts are facts. You are not being mean, just silly. Elon clearly isn't an "idiot" however you stretch the meaning of the word, he's a highly capable and successful man and has demonstrated repeatedly his skill, both in engineering and entrepreneurship. And your opinion isn't a fact.
- ojnabieoot 6y ago
  I am copying another comment of mine to address this. The point is that I am calling Musk an idiot because he has a long history of being an idiot. The comment was more addressing him also being an obvious con artist, but I think his idiocy shines through. ~~~ [...]I am not denying that he is talented and he probably has a > 105 IQ. The Autopilot controversy is just a straight con job, and a very stupid one. The BS about the $420 stock price was a horrendously stupid con job. His disinformation mongering about coronavirus - when he is smart enough to know the truth - is also a con job, both for his fans and his workers. Deliberately under-counting workers injuries at Tesla plants is conning safety regulators - it's not as dumb as Elon's other cons, but it's a con. Removing safety markers because Elon doesn't like them aesthetically is maybe not a con job but it is remarkably idiotic. The PR-motivated stuff about Musk engineering a solution to those kids trapped in Thailand - straight-up con job, and one that blew up in his face due to his idiotic and narcissitic use of Twitter. Hyperloop (remember that?) was always a con job, and one that was so transparently stupid that nobody but Musk could have gotten away with it. I could go on. The point is that I am calling Musk an "idiot conman" because of a) his well-documented affinity for conning his customers, fans, investors, and government agencies b) his well-documented acts of being a huge idiot, including in his planning and execution of most of the above con jobs

AgloeDreams 6y ago

In fairness, the company set incredible records for fundraising and lines of credit every quarter to offset massive losses, ignores basic safety concerns in production, ships beta software, sold still non-existing products ( Roadster 2, Semi, Autopilot LV5) with a promise they would ship them, took reservations for cars at false prices they would eventually never ship or make hard to get [35K model 3 which was briefly sold, $39K Model Y which they cancelled in favor of a base $45K Model Y, $40K Cybertruck which they don't even know how big it will be or if it will pass any safety tests] and then used reservations numbers to leverage raising capital. If Tesla acted like a normal responsible company, they should have been out of cash like all the nay-sayers said. Instead they frauded and scammed their way alive.

hef19898 6y ago
That is a pretty good summary. And also where the hype comes in. Every other company or CEO would get nailed to the wall for that, Tesla not so much. It also shows how VC money and hype can distort competition. Every EV company out there is not just competing with ICEs but also Tesla's inflated pockets. Which, IMHO, stifles innovation in that sector.