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Note that you can also, while you're at it, abolish rounding. You already have this in some sense on gas pumps: the price advertised has taxes included so you

Note that you can also, while you're at it, abolish rounding. You already have this in some sense on gas pumps: the price advertised has taxes included so you are not always playing guess-the-final-total with your money. Just pass a law that requires fair advertising of the actual amount the purchaser will pay, taxes etc. included. If there are special circumstances that might make certain people exempt from a tax -- SNAP is sales-tax free, for instance -- there are several ways to handle that but it's clearer when phrased as a discount rather than as an evasion of a tax.

arcticbull 6y ago
> Just pass a law that requires fair advertising of the actual amount the purchaser will pay, taxes etc. included. "Just" anything in America is as OP pointed out an absolute nightmare left-vs-right debacle. The "left" wants to have inclusive pricing for, as you point out, convenience and sanity while politicians on the "right" want to have taxes appended afterwards so that you are smacked in the face with how much the government is wasting your money every time you buy anything.
Pamar 6y ago
Well, yes, this... I am European and during my brief stay in the USA the fact that taxes were added at the cashier was awkward. I am sure you had your reasons and if you grow up in that sustem you won't notice much, but it looks a bit counterintuitive to foreigners.
- excitom 6y ago
  The biggest reason is that sales tax can be applied at the state level, then a county can add a bit more, and a city a bit more still. So for a national chain it's impossible to know the final price to put on an item until the consumer gets to the checkout register.
- roywiggins 6y ago
  It's insisted upon by anti-tax advocates, so that Americans always get reminded about exactly how much the government is adding onto the price. Otherwise, the theory goes, we would get too happy about taxes.
  - mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
    Being in favor of transparency in taxation isn't the same as being "anti-tax".
  - donarb 6y ago
    That happened in Washington state when Costco sponsored a privatization initiative to allow liquor to be sold by private stores and abolish the state stores. The private stores started advertising the non-tax price with tiny print saying that tax would be added at the register (when the state sold liquor, the price on the shelf included all liquor taxes). People were pissed thinking that the state had been ripping them off until they got to the register and found that the price was pretty much what they paid before. Actually they were paying a bit more, most people didn't read the initiative before voting on it. Now the stores print the total price in their advertisements.
    - Aloha 6y ago
      the bigger reason people voted to change that was to expand hours of access - and selection, which were pretty limited before.
  - thekyle 6y ago
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think there is any law that says businesses have to add sales tax on separately. Since it's the business who actually pays the tax not the consumer they could just take it out of their own profits. However, the reason I think stores do this is: If store A is selling candy bars for $1 (+ $0.05 tax at register) and store B is selling candy bars for $1.05. Most people would buy their candy from store A because their prices are lower.
    - roywiggins 6y ago
      Sometimes stores will structure sales that way ("we pay the sales tax" sales), so I expect you're right. The situation where it comes up is the idea of an American VAT. Because it applies the tax before the store even sees the good, the tax ends up baked into the price. And people like Grover Norquist have argued against a VAT specifically because of that: "The VAT is embedded inside the price of a good (as opposed to the U.S., where sales tax is transparent and on top of the price). As such, people forget they pay it, and European governments have found it too easy to raise the tax repeatedly over time." https://humanevents.com/2010/04/23/dont-give-obama-a-vat/ https://humanevents.com/2010/04/23/dont-give-obama-a-vat/
- bdowling 6y ago
  Taxes are computed at the cashier because tax rates vary from state to state and city to city. If sales taxes were uniform then we would see more advertised prices including tax. One exception is in advertised gasoline prices, which usually include all the taxes, including sales tax and special gasoline taxes.
  - chillwaves 6y ago
    I assume menu prices also different from state to state, city to city. Not sure I see the issue.
    - rhino369 6y ago
      It makes it impossible to do mass marketing with prices. Best Buy can send a flyer saying "Xbox One Only 199.99!" to everyone in Illinois. But if they had to include tax, it would be 219.99 or 214.99 depending on which side of my town you live in because they tax rate changes.
      - TheSmiddy 6y ago
        This is an argument for less levels of taxation, ie sales tax should only be at state and not county level. Almost every other country in the world works fine without bait'n'switching their citizens at every single transaction.
        sosborn 6y ago
        The thing is though, it isn't bait and switch. Everyone know exactly what it happening. I remember learning it when I was 7 - it isn't difficult. I get that it's weird if you aren't used to it, but it really isn't the big deal people (that don't have to even deal with it) make it out to be.
  - ciceryadam 6y ago
    But why is it possible for gasoline, and not for other items?
syshum 6y ago
Absolutely not, I want to see the practice end on Gas Pumps. Every business should be requried to adversite, print, and clearly mark the amount of the tansaction is going to taxation Hiding taxation in the purchase price allows government to increase those tax rights with out facing the same amount of public back lash as they do when the taxation is calculated secretly from the transaction or advertised rate This is why when come taxes increase their gas takes the hate and vitriol is directed at the "evil gas companies" increasing the rates when in reality it was a increase in gas taxation that cause the per gallon price to increase One of the primary reasons I oppose a VAT style tax in the US is the vert nature of non-transparent taxation. People need to know exactly how much money the government is taken from them in any given transaction
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  > Every business should be requried to adversite, print, and clearly mark the amount of the tansaction is going to taxation That's exactly what happens in Europe, the receipt tells you exactly how much you paid for each of tax and goods.
  - crdrost 6y ago
    Yeah like these do not have to be separate things. If I advertise a final price to you, "you will pay $4.95 for this thing," I can still communicate on the receipt that $0.50 of that went to sales tax, and if you are paying in a way that excludes taxes from being collected, e.g. SNAP benefits, there is no reason that you can't be charged only $4.45 for that because the tax is deducted from the advertised purchase price. If you are concerned about benefits that are "use 'em or lose 'em" you can always remit the tax to the person as physical cash so that there is transparency there. This is just a pareto inefficiency; there appears to be a way to make some folks better off without making any other folks worse off.
- Entalpi 6y ago
  In every single transaction? Why if there were some form you sent in and recieved every year that contain exactly the financial transation for that year between you and the state.. hmm.

arcticbull 6y ago

> Just pass a law that requires fair advertising of the actual amount the purchaser will pay, taxes etc. included. "Just" anything in America is as OP pointed out an absolute nightmare left-vs-right debacle. The "left" wants to have inclusive pricing for, as you point out, convenience and sanity while politicians on the "right" want to have taxes appended afterwards so that you are smacked in the face with how much the government is wasting your money every time you buy anything.

Pamar 6y ago

Well, yes, this... I am European and during my brief stay in the USA the fact that taxes were added at the cashier was awkward. I am sure you had your reasons and if you grow up in that sustem you won't notice much, but it looks a bit counterintuitive to foreigners.

excitom 6y ago
The biggest reason is that sales tax can be applied at the state level, then a county can add a bit more, and a city a bit more still. So for a national chain it's impossible to know the final price to put on an item until the consumer gets to the checkout register.
roywiggins 6y ago
It's insisted upon by anti-tax advocates, so that Americans always get reminded about exactly how much the government is adding onto the price. Otherwise, the theory goes, we would get too happy about taxes.
- mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
  Being in favor of transparency in taxation isn't the same as being "anti-tax".
- donarb 6y ago
  That happened in Washington state when Costco sponsored a privatization initiative to allow liquor to be sold by private stores and abolish the state stores. The private stores started advertising the non-tax price with tiny print saying that tax would be added at the register (when the state sold liquor, the price on the shelf included all liquor taxes). People were pissed thinking that the state had been ripping them off until they got to the register and found that the price was pretty much what they paid before. Actually they were paying a bit more, most people didn't read the initiative before voting on it. Now the stores print the total price in their advertisements.
  - Aloha 6y ago
    the bigger reason people voted to change that was to expand hours of access - and selection, which were pretty limited before.
- thekyle 6y ago
  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think there is any law that says businesses have to add sales tax on separately. Since it's the business who actually pays the tax not the consumer they could just take it out of their own profits. However, the reason I think stores do this is: If store A is selling candy bars for $1 (+ $0.05 tax at register) and store B is selling candy bars for $1.05. Most people would buy their candy from store A because their prices are lower.
  - roywiggins 6y ago
    Sometimes stores will structure sales that way ("we pay the sales tax" sales), so I expect you're right. The situation where it comes up is the idea of an American VAT. Because it applies the tax before the store even sees the good, the tax ends up baked into the price. And people like Grover Norquist have argued against a VAT specifically because of that: "The VAT is embedded inside the price of a good (as opposed to the U.S., where sales tax is transparent and on top of the price). As such, people forget they pay it, and European governments have found it too easy to raise the tax repeatedly over time." https://humanevents.com/2010/04/23/dont-give-obama-a-vat/ https://humanevents.com/2010/04/23/dont-give-obama-a-vat/
bdowling 6y ago
Taxes are computed at the cashier because tax rates vary from state to state and city to city. If sales taxes were uniform then we would see more advertised prices including tax. One exception is in advertised gasoline prices, which usually include all the taxes, including sales tax and special gasoline taxes.
- chillwaves 6y ago
  I assume menu prices also different from state to state, city to city. Not sure I see the issue.
  - rhino369 6y ago
    It makes it impossible to do mass marketing with prices. Best Buy can send a flyer saying "Xbox One Only 199.99!" to everyone in Illinois. But if they had to include tax, it would be 219.99 or 214.99 depending on which side of my town you live in because they tax rate changes.
    - TheSmiddy 6y ago
      This is an argument for less levels of taxation, ie sales tax should only be at state and not county level. Almost every other country in the world works fine without bait'n'switching their citizens at every single transaction.
      - sosborn 6y ago
        The thing is though, it isn't bait and switch. Everyone know exactly what it happening. I remember learning it when I was 7 - it isn't difficult. I get that it's weird if you aren't used to it, but it really isn't the big deal people (that don't have to even deal with it) make it out to be.
- ciceryadam 6y ago
  But why is it possible for gasoline, and not for other items?

syshum 6y ago

Absolutely not, I want to see the practice end on Gas Pumps. Every business should be requried to adversite, print, and clearly mark the amount of the tansaction is going to taxation Hiding taxation in the purchase price allows government to increase those tax rights with out facing the same amount of public back lash as they do when the taxation is calculated secretly from the transaction or advertised rate This is why when come taxes increase their gas takes the hate and vitriol is directed at the "evil gas companies" increasing the rates when in reality it was a increase in gas taxation that cause the per gallon price to increase One of the primary reasons I oppose a VAT style tax in the US is the vert nature of non-transparent taxation. People need to know exactly how much money the government is taken from them in any given transaction

kwhitefoot 6y ago
> Every business should be requried to adversite, print, and clearly mark the amount of the tansaction is going to taxation That's exactly what happens in Europe, the receipt tells you exactly how much you paid for each of tax and goods.
- crdrost 6y ago
  Yeah like these do not have to be separate things. If I advertise a final price to you, "you will pay $4.95 for this thing," I can still communicate on the receipt that $0.50 of that went to sales tax, and if you are paying in a way that excludes taxes from being collected, e.g. SNAP benefits, there is no reason that you can't be charged only $4.45 for that because the tax is deducted from the advertised purchase price. If you are concerned about benefits that are "use 'em or lose 'em" you can always remit the tax to the person as physical cash so that there is transparency there. This is just a pareto inefficiency; there appears to be a way to make some folks better off without making any other folks worse off.
Entalpi 6y ago
In every single transaction? Why if there were some form you sent in and recieved every year that contain exactly the financial transation for that year between you and the state.. hmm.