5 ms·

> What do you do when the massive amounts of disinformation campaigns remove any sort of international solidarity from you? Have you talked with anyone who liv

> What do you do when the massive amounts of disinformation campaigns remove any sort of international solidarity from you? Have you talked with anyone who lives there? The problem is not propaganda or poor PR. Same goes for Venezuela nowadays.

stunt 6y ago
Yeah but you don't know how much of that is because of foreign interventions. Everything has a consequence and nobody knows if Cubans could build a better country without all foreign interventions. We just feed propaganda on both sides. Foreign interventions are all about interests and they ruin other other countries. That's how we bash Iran for democracy, but we sell bombs to KSA at the same time. WAR and Oil are big businesses. You can easily connect all the dots in Iran and you get to the point that today they have corrupted leaders. Nobody is letting them to construct their country. I'm not sure if it's fair to blame them now. "Although Reza Shah declared neutrality at an early stage of World War II, Iran assumed greater strategic importance to the British government" "The invasion's strategic purpose was to ensure the safety of Allied supply lines to the USSR" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran "The CIA collaborated with the last Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, to overthrow Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadeq and install General Fazlollah Zahedi. Later, the 1979 hostage crisis at the American embassy in Tehran, lasting 444 days until January 21, 1981, stemmed from past CIA affairs in Iran" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iran "According to Iraqi documents, assistance in the development of chemical weapons was obtained from firms in many countries, including the United States, West Germany, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and France. A report stated that Dutch, Australian, Italian, French and both West and East German companies were involved in the export of raw materials to Iraqi chemical weapons factories." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_attacks_against_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_attacks_against... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq... "International policies pursued by the Shah in order to increase national income by remarkable increases in the price of oil through his leading role in the OPEC have been stressed as a major cause for a shift of Western interests and priorities, and for a reduction of their support for him reflected in a critical position of Western politicians and media, especially of the administration of U.S. President Jimmy Carter regarding the question of human rights in Iran, and in strengthened economic ties between the United States of America and Saudi Arabia in the 1970s." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi#Criticism_of_reign_and_causes_of_his_overthrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi#Criticis... "Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
aaomidi 6y ago
Yes. I've always studied the history of Cuba extensively so. Before the Cuban revolution Cuba was essentially a shell of a country. The sanctions and embargo that is still on going to Cuba is choking their economy and recovery to the global stage. It also doesn't help that they were used as a proxy by the US and USSR.
- rumanator 6y ago
  Why do you feel you can downplay the oppressive and castrating stranglehold the regimes have on their population by mentioning tired and meaningless cliches about how they were somehow oppressed before but now their life is an idillic existence? I mean, do you believe that all those poor martyrs who died trying to leave the country by boat just so happened to have floated away from their beach when they lost track of how much good times they were having?
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    That's not what I'm saying at all. There is a lot to be said about the Cubans who escaped to the US. A revolution is inherently something that's going to break the stability of a country for a few years to few decades. That's simply a given when it comes to revolutions. The rich and privileged can find a way to escape the country during a revolution, especially if they don't believe the revolution will do them any good. What comes after a revolution is reconstruction of that stability, this is extremely difficult when you're being choked by the biggest economic power in the world. When have sanctions actually improved lives for anyone? When has deploying literal biological weapons helped anyone? The US doesn't play fair with economic systems that go against the grain the US has set. This is where the problem is. We can't even see if this alternate system would work or not because of how the US treats them.
    - kls 6y ago
      So the US made every one of these alternative systems, turn into a dictatorship with an abominable human rights record? Did you see the old Cubans at Versailles (or for that fact all over Little Havana) celebrating Castro's death? Did they look like the rich of Cuba that fled. My father in law was a farmer, they took his families farm he was essentially poor, when they took it and destitute after the fact, he was sentenced to death at 16 for speaking out. He ran a mine field, after escaping prison to claim asylum by setting foot in Guantanamo, most Cuban's take their chances by boat because it is safer. It's delusional to think that communist systems have not been given their fair shake. They all failed and they all failed spectacularly due to the fact that they have a propensity to kill their own people when things don't go according to how the pie in the sky dreamer, dreamed it up.
codeadict 6y ago
I was born and lived there until 2016. The problem is both things, there is a huge malfunctioning of the government and the society has became conformist of what they have. But, you cannot discard the US as a pretty bad influence on how things are over there. More so in recent years since Trump. I always say if the US gets out of the way, Cubans will free themselves. When there is nobody to blame, people will question the system. When Obama lifted some restrictions over the island I visited there and saw a huge change on people's mentality and there was an entrepreneurship spirit, down that path things would have changed a lot. Now people are more blocked, more hungry, with less resources and with state media blaming the US, they will not think about anything else than survive. I say all this as somebody that doesn't like communism but neither the system in the US, they are both brutal in different ways imho.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  This is exactly what was happening in Iran after JCPOA. Restrictions were lifting and people were demanding more from the system. Trump has effectively shut that down and has made millions of enemies and millions of future enemies from Iran. You can't just choke an economy and expect the state to get better. If anything you're just making it worse.
- rumanator 6y ago
  Your comment calls out a couple of US presidents by name but does not come close to mention Cuba's regime, let alone any of his leaders, a single time. Do you believe that the US has most of the responsibility while Cuba's dictatorship has none at all?
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    That's a wild implication you're making there based off of a person's comments. And is likely against HN rules.
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > That's a wild implication you're making there based off of a person's comments. The parent poster commented on Cuba's current state but never mentioned any active role of Cuba's ruling regime, which single-handedly rules the country with an iron fist for over half a century. Instead, he commented on a couple of US presidents, including the current acting president which was elected over six decades of continuous rule of Cuba's acting regime. If we are honestly discussing who is responsible for Cuba's current state, can you try to explain to me without resorting to ad hominem attacks why are the two last ruling US presidents relevant but Cuba's very own regime isn't even worthy of a side reference? Because I'm pretty sure the Castro brothers were the ones calling the shots for over half a century, including how and where to jail political dissidents.

stunt 6y ago

Yeah but you don't know how much of that is because of foreign interventions. Everything has a consequence and nobody knows if Cubans could build a better country without all foreign interventions. We just feed propaganda on both sides. Foreign interventions are all about interests and they ruin other other countries. That's how we bash Iran for democracy, but we sell bombs to KSA at the same time. WAR and Oil are big businesses. You can easily connect all the dots in Iran and you get to the point that today they have corrupted leaders. Nobody is letting them to construct their country. I'm not sure if it's fair to blame them now. "Although Reza Shah declared neutrality at an early stage of World War II, Iran assumed greater strategic importance to the British government" "The invasion's strategic purpose was to ensure the safety of Allied supply lines to the USSR" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran "The CIA collaborated with the last Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, to overthrow Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadeq and install General Fazlollah Zahedi. Later, the 1979 hostage crisis at the American embassy in Tehran, lasting 444 days until January 21, 1981, stemmed from past CIA affairs in Iran" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iran "According to Iraqi documents, assistance in the development of chemical weapons was obtained from firms in many countries, including the United States, West Germany, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and France. A report stated that Dutch, Australian, Italian, French and both West and East German companies were involved in the export of raw materials to Iraqi chemical weapons factories." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_attacks_against_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_attacks_against... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq... "International policies pursued by the Shah in order to increase national income by remarkable increases in the price of oil through his leading role in the OPEC have been stressed as a major cause for a shift of Western interests and priorities, and for a reduction of their support for him reflected in a critical position of Western politicians and media, especially of the administration of U.S. President Jimmy Carter regarding the question of human rights in Iran, and in strengthened economic ties between the United States of America and Saudi Arabia in the 1970s." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi#Criticism_of_reign_and_causes_of_his_overthrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi#Criticis... "Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

aaomidi 6y ago

Yes. I've always studied the history of Cuba extensively so. Before the Cuban revolution Cuba was essentially a shell of a country. The sanctions and embargo that is still on going to Cuba is choking their economy and recovery to the global stage. It also doesn't help that they were used as a proxy by the US and USSR.

rumanator 6y ago
Why do you feel you can downplay the oppressive and castrating stranglehold the regimes have on their population by mentioning tired and meaningless cliches about how they were somehow oppressed before but now their life is an idillic existence? I mean, do you believe that all those poor martyrs who died trying to leave the country by boat just so happened to have floated away from their beach when they lost track of how much good times they were having?
- aaomidi 6y ago
  That's not what I'm saying at all. There is a lot to be said about the Cubans who escaped to the US. A revolution is inherently something that's going to break the stability of a country for a few years to few decades. That's simply a given when it comes to revolutions. The rich and privileged can find a way to escape the country during a revolution, especially if they don't believe the revolution will do them any good. What comes after a revolution is reconstruction of that stability, this is extremely difficult when you're being choked by the biggest economic power in the world. When have sanctions actually improved lives for anyone? When has deploying literal biological weapons helped anyone? The US doesn't play fair with economic systems that go against the grain the US has set. This is where the problem is. We can't even see if this alternate system would work or not because of how the US treats them.
  - kls 6y ago
    So the US made every one of these alternative systems, turn into a dictatorship with an abominable human rights record? Did you see the old Cubans at Versailles (or for that fact all over Little Havana) celebrating Castro's death? Did they look like the rich of Cuba that fled. My father in law was a farmer, they took his families farm he was essentially poor, when they took it and destitute after the fact, he was sentenced to death at 16 for speaking out. He ran a mine field, after escaping prison to claim asylum by setting foot in Guantanamo, most Cuban's take their chances by boat because it is safer. It's delusional to think that communist systems have not been given their fair shake. They all failed and they all failed spectacularly due to the fact that they have a propensity to kill their own people when things don't go according to how the pie in the sky dreamer, dreamed it up.

codeadict 6y ago

I was born and lived there until 2016. The problem is both things, there is a huge malfunctioning of the government and the society has became conformist of what they have. But, you cannot discard the US as a pretty bad influence on how things are over there. More so in recent years since Trump. I always say if the US gets out of the way, Cubans will free themselves. When there is nobody to blame, people will question the system. When Obama lifted some restrictions over the island I visited there and saw a huge change on people's mentality and there was an entrepreneurship spirit, down that path things would have changed a lot. Now people are more blocked, more hungry, with less resources and with state media blaming the US, they will not think about anything else than survive. I say all this as somebody that doesn't like communism but neither the system in the US, they are both brutal in different ways imho.

aaomidi 6y ago
This is exactly what was happening in Iran after JCPOA. Restrictions were lifting and people were demanding more from the system. Trump has effectively shut that down and has made millions of enemies and millions of future enemies from Iran. You can't just choke an economy and expect the state to get better. If anything you're just making it worse.
rumanator 6y ago
Your comment calls out a couple of US presidents by name but does not come close to mention Cuba's regime, let alone any of his leaders, a single time. Do you believe that the US has most of the responsibility while Cuba's dictatorship has none at all?
- aaomidi 6y ago
  That's a wild implication you're making there based off of a person's comments. And is likely against HN rules.
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > That's a wild implication you're making there based off of a person's comments. The parent poster commented on Cuba's current state but never mentioned any active role of Cuba's ruling regime, which single-handedly rules the country with an iron fist for over half a century. Instead, he commented on a couple of US presidents, including the current acting president which was elected over six decades of continuous rule of Cuba's acting regime. If we are honestly discussing who is responsible for Cuba's current state, can you try to explain to me without resorting to ad hominem attacks why are the two last ruling US presidents relevant but Cuba's very own regime isn't even worthy of a side reference? Because I'm pretty sure the Castro brothers were the ones calling the shots for over half a century, including how and where to jail political dissidents.