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wow... you are literally embodying the cancel culture by claiming that their opinion is irrelevant because of some HR pay practice you discovered that is totall

wow... you are literally embodying the cancel culture by claiming that their opinion is irrelevant because of some HR pay practice you discovered that is totally orthogonal to the conversation? Should we cancel your opinion because of some seemingly inconsistent opinion you had in your comment history? This is exactly the practice of arguing the arguer, rather than the argument, and it's a bad faith tactic.

jakelazaroff 6y ago
> This is exactly the practice of arguing the arguer, rather than the argument, and it's a bad faith tactic. Her claim is that she, herself, is being exceptionally victimized and silenced; it’s literally impossible rebut this without arguing against her, specifically. Harper’s’ unpaid internships was a more general example. Had I been speaking about Bari Weiss specifically, I might have mentioned her support for deplatforming a Jewish speaker from Stanford [1], her attempts to get Arab professors fired [2] or her reports to other employees’ bosses in response to minor slights [3]. And even if my argument were to hinge on an orthogonal claim, you think that’s tantamount to “embodying cancel culture”? I haven’t called for any personal or professional consequences; literally all I’m doing is disagreeing with her. This is why so many roll their eyes when people start waxing on about cancel culture. What they really mean is that they don’t want to hear criticism of their opinions. [1] https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1125789271959277569?s=21 https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1125789271959277569?s=2... [2] https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-falsely-denies-her-years-of-attacks-on-the-academic-freedom-of-arab-scholars-who-criticize-israel/ https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals... [3] https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1268654308205006848?s=21 https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/126865430820500684...
- PunchTornado 6y ago
  no, they want people to get fired and lose sources of revenue. Look what's happening with uncle bob on twitter. Plenty of examples where people are kicked of conferences for wearing a red hat https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21484676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21484676 Jordan Peterson gets his offer to teach at Cambridge University rejected after a twitter cancel culture mob started attacking the Uni. You are chosing to ignore the cancel culture that exists.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    You misunderstand me: the people complaining about “cancel culture” are the ones who simply want to be able to air their opinions without hearing criticism. I don’t know what’s happening to Uncle Bob on Twitter, but right now his account has 150,000 followers. So, what consequences is he actually suffering here? What if you switched out the MAGA hat for one bearing the rebel flag or a misogynistic slur? It seems eminently reasonable to me for a conference to kick people out for refusing to remove a superfluous article of clothing that makes other attendees feel unwelcome. Jordan Peterson’s offer was rescinded not because of a “twitter cancel culture mob” but by students and faculty at the University, who absolutely have a right to decide whom to allow into their community: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-...
    - PunchTornado 6y ago
      the maga hat is the slogan that half the country voted for. it is not a misogynistic slur or a rebel flag. It encompasses a lot of ideas, mainly conservative. I don't know what a rebel flag is but I also wouldn't ban someone for it. this is the kind of tribalism that proves my point about cancel culture.
    - PunchTornado 6y ago
      the firing of David Shor, a data analyst at the progressive consulting firm Civis Analytics. Amid the protests over Floyd’s killing, Shor was called out online for tweeting about work by Omar Wasow, an assistant professor of politics at Princeton, that shows a link between violent protest in the 1960s and Richard Nixon’s vote share. Shor was accused of “anti-Blackness” for seeming to suggest, via Wasow’s research, that violent protest is counterproductive. (Wasow is Black.) “At least some employees and clients of Civis Analytics complained that Shor’s tweet threatened their safety,”

jakelazaroff 6y ago

> This is exactly the practice of arguing the arguer, rather than the argument, and it's a bad faith tactic. Her claim is that she, herself, is being exceptionally victimized and silenced; it’s literally impossible rebut this without arguing against her, specifically. Harper’s’ unpaid internships was a more general example. Had I been speaking about Bari Weiss specifically, I might have mentioned her support for deplatforming a Jewish speaker from Stanford [1], her attempts to get Arab professors fired [2] or her reports to other employees’ bosses in response to minor slights [3]. And even if my argument were to hinge on an orthogonal claim, you think that’s tantamount to “embodying cancel culture”? I haven’t called for any personal or professional consequences; literally all I’m doing is disagreeing with her. This is why so many roll their eyes when people start waxing on about cancel culture. What they really mean is that they don’t want to hear criticism of their opinions. [1] https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1125789271959277569?s=21 https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1125789271959277569?s=2... [2] https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-falsely-denies-her-years-of-attacks-on-the-academic-freedom-of-arab-scholars-who-criticize-israel/ https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals... [3] https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1268654308205006848?s=21 https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/126865430820500684...

PunchTornado 6y ago
no, they want people to get fired and lose sources of revenue. Look what's happening with uncle bob on twitter. Plenty of examples where people are kicked of conferences for wearing a red hat https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21484676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21484676 Jordan Peterson gets his offer to teach at Cambridge University rejected after a twitter cancel culture mob started attacking the Uni. You are chosing to ignore the cancel culture that exists.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  You misunderstand me: the people complaining about “cancel culture” are the ones who simply want to be able to air their opinions without hearing criticism. I don’t know what’s happening to Uncle Bob on Twitter, but right now his account has 150,000 followers. So, what consequences is he actually suffering here? What if you switched out the MAGA hat for one bearing the rebel flag or a misogynistic slur? It seems eminently reasonable to me for a conference to kick people out for refusing to remove a superfluous article of clothing that makes other attendees feel unwelcome. Jordan Peterson’s offer was rescinded not because of a “twitter cancel culture mob” but by students and faculty at the University, who absolutely have a right to decide whom to allow into their community: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-...
  - PunchTornado 6y ago
    the maga hat is the slogan that half the country voted for. it is not a misogynistic slur or a rebel flag. It encompasses a lot of ideas, mainly conservative. I don't know what a rebel flag is but I also wouldn't ban someone for it. this is the kind of tribalism that proves my point about cancel culture.
  - PunchTornado 6y ago
    the firing of David Shor, a data analyst at the progressive consulting firm Civis Analytics. Amid the protests over Floyd’s killing, Shor was called out online for tweeting about work by Omar Wasow, an assistant professor of politics at Princeton, that shows a link between violent protest in the 1960s and Richard Nixon’s vote share. Shor was accused of “anti-Blackness” for seeming to suggest, via Wasow’s research, that violent protest is counterproductive. (Wasow is Black.) “At least some employees and clients of Civis Analytics complained that Shor’s tweet threatened their safety,”