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Good. These statements are lies. The company should face punishment in the US for saying that full self-driving is blocked by “regulatory approval” when they’re

Good. These statements are lies. The company should face punishment in the US for saying that full self-driving is blocked by “regulatory approval” when they’re still an unknown number of years away from even being able to demo something they plan to ship. They still don’t know if full self-driving is even possible at the required level of reliability with their current hardware suite. They could well be wrong and sitting on a scandal that will eclipse Theranos.

tenuousemphasis 6y ago
Which statements? This is what they say when you select the full self driving option when ordering a car: >The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  We need to break this down and examine it part by part and in whole as it’s extremely ambiguous to me what this is saying.
  - tenuousemphasis 6y ago
    Go ahead and read it slowly a few times. It's clear to me.
- SheinhardtWigCo 6y ago
  All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances - https://www.tesla.com/model3 https://www.tesla.com/model3 Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really. - https://www.tesla.com/model3/design https://www.tesla.com/model3/design Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53349313 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53349313
  - tenuousemphasis 6y ago
    >All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances Probably true. >Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really. It does. Poorly but it's gotten a lot better. >Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said. A CEO making optimistic projections. Where are these lies?
    - SheinhardtWigCo 6y ago
      These are all optimistic projections stated as fact. I think we simply disagree on whether to call that a lie.
      - Ajedi32 6y ago
        Agreed. Personally I think it depends on whether the projections are being made in good faith. Being wrong about something doesn't make you a liar unless you knew you were wrong when you made the statement in the first place.
    - computerex 6y ago
      > Probably true. That's merely speculation. Speculation and projections shouldn't be marketed as fact. The fact is that Tesla has no where near the capability of full self-driving now, and they aren't even remotely close. So claiming that the current hardware configuration will be enough seems foolishly optimistic at best and deceitful at worst. If they were very close to the milestone then perhaps claims like that would have more weight. > It does. Poorly but it's gotten a lot better. Look at the myriad of videos on YT demonstrating how spectacularly the car fails in doing this. > A CEO making optimistic projections. > Where are these lies? There is a difference between making optimistic projections that are realistic and achievable based on current capabilities and data, and what Elon Musk has said with Tesla and FSD. Mark my words, he is just going to shift the goal-post, like he always does. And he is going to cheat customers out of thousands of dollars.
- summerlight 6y ago
  https://www.zdnet.com/article/teslas-elon-musk-our-fully-autonomous-cars-are-now-very-close/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/teslas-elon-musk-our-fully-aut...
gibolt 6y ago
When it gets there, regulatory approval will absolutely be a bottleneck to deployment. They don't say it is a current blocker. And it won't come close to Theranos. Tesla makes real products that are class-leading. Even if Tesla can't reach level 5, it will be damn close and make driving 10-100x safer than just a human.
- SheinhardtWigCo 6y ago
  Sure, but to even mention it now is disingenuous because they’re not even close to having a solution that their own engineering department would be willing to ship. You and I have no idea whether it’s possible to get close to level 5 with their currently shipping hardware. Neither do they. And this stuff about being 10-100x safer than a human is pure fantasy right now. The industry is incredibly far away from that and there’s no evidence to suggest Tesla is years ahead of other teams working on the problem.
  - gibolt 6y ago
    10x is within striking distance. Search for Autopilot reporting for the evidence. While it is biased towards highway miles, all the safety features augment the human driver. This will only get better with time. Shipping is different from functional. You don't know what their engineering department thinks. Unless you are an insider, it is hard to guess the timeline, trajectory, or confidence levels.
    - itsoktocry 6y ago
      >Unless you are an insider, it is hard to guess the timeline, trajectory, or confidence levels. You realize that as a public company who is selling this product, they are obligated to spell this out to consumers and shareholders, right? The entire point is for it to be unambiguous.
    - Piskvorrr 6y ago
      Yet you are confident of that "10x" statistic. Therefore: are you a) leaking inside data, or b) pulling numbers out of thin air?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

tenuousemphasis 6y ago

Which statements? This is what they say when you select the full self driving option when ordering a car: >The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
We need to break this down and examine it part by part and in whole as it’s extremely ambiguous to me what this is saying.
- tenuousemphasis 6y ago
  Go ahead and read it slowly a few times. It's clear to me.
SheinhardtWigCo 6y ago
All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances - https://www.tesla.com/model3 https://www.tesla.com/model3 Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really. - https://www.tesla.com/model3/design https://www.tesla.com/model3/design Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53349313 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53349313
- tenuousemphasis 6y ago
  >All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances Probably true. >Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really. It does. Poorly but it's gotten a lot better. >Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said. A CEO making optimistic projections. Where are these lies?
  - SheinhardtWigCo 6y ago
    These are all optimistic projections stated as fact. I think we simply disagree on whether to call that a lie.
    - Ajedi32 6y ago
      Agreed. Personally I think it depends on whether the projections are being made in good faith. Being wrong about something doesn't make you a liar unless you knew you were wrong when you made the statement in the first place.
  - computerex 6y ago
    > Probably true. That's merely speculation. Speculation and projections shouldn't be marketed as fact. The fact is that Tesla has no where near the capability of full self-driving now, and they aren't even remotely close. So claiming that the current hardware configuration will be enough seems foolishly optimistic at best and deceitful at worst. If they were very close to the milestone then perhaps claims like that would have more weight. > It does. Poorly but it's gotten a lot better. Look at the myriad of videos on YT demonstrating how spectacularly the car fails in doing this. > A CEO making optimistic projections. > Where are these lies? There is a difference between making optimistic projections that are realistic and achievable based on current capabilities and data, and what Elon Musk has said with Tesla and FSD. Mark my words, he is just going to shift the goal-post, like he always does. And he is going to cheat customers out of thousands of dollars.
summerlight 6y ago
https://www.zdnet.com/article/teslas-elon-musk-our-fully-autonomous-cars-are-now-very-close/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/teslas-elon-musk-our-fully-aut...

gibolt 6y ago

When it gets there, regulatory approval will absolutely be a bottleneck to deployment. They don't say it is a current blocker. And it won't come close to Theranos. Tesla makes real products that are class-leading. Even if Tesla can't reach level 5, it will be damn close and make driving 10-100x safer than just a human.

SheinhardtWigCo 6y ago
Sure, but to even mention it now is disingenuous because they’re not even close to having a solution that their own engineering department would be willing to ship. You and I have no idea whether it’s possible to get close to level 5 with their currently shipping hardware. Neither do they. And this stuff about being 10-100x safer than a human is pure fantasy right now. The industry is incredibly far away from that and there’s no evidence to suggest Tesla is years ahead of other teams working on the problem.
- gibolt 6y ago
  10x is within striking distance. Search for Autopilot reporting for the evidence. While it is biased towards highway miles, all the safety features augment the human driver. This will only get better with time. Shipping is different from functional. You don't know what their engineering department thinks. Unless you are an insider, it is hard to guess the timeline, trajectory, or confidence levels.
  - itsoktocry 6y ago
    >Unless you are an insider, it is hard to guess the timeline, trajectory, or confidence levels. You realize that as a public company who is selling this product, they are obligated to spell this out to consumers and shareholders, right? The entire point is for it to be unambiguous.
  - Piskvorrr 6y ago
    Yet you are confident of that "10x" statistic. Therefore: are you a) leaking inside data, or b) pulling numbers out of thin air?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]