6 ms·

Regardless of what the practice is in Canada, I have zero faith in literally any US business to round down on anything, at anytime, for any reason at all. It wi

Regardless of what the practice is in Canada, I have zero faith in literally any US business to round down on anything, at anytime, for any reason at all. It will, I guarantee, be round up on everything.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago
Honestly, all folks would have to do is get a receipt that shows how much tax you paid. And even if they do always round up: It won't be that much - up to 4 cents per transaction. 125 transactions would only cost you $5 per month - and besides, businesses have actual costs to using cash. No pennies means less time handing out and counting change and less change to get from the bank. Not to mention the savings at the government level.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
klyrs 6y ago
It's not merely "practice" in Canada, it's the law. And since most transactions are handled by software these days, it's pretty easy to implement and verify (jobs: secret shoppers). Subtler, businesses can try to game their prices to maximize rounding gains; also illegal (jobs: accounting, data analysis). For small businesses with antiquated tills, one should offer grants for upgrades and training (jobs: installation, manufacturing, tech support...).
- nybble41 6y ago
  > Subtler, businesses can try to game their prices to maximize rounding gains; also illegal (jobs: accounting, data analysis). It's actually illegal there to set prices such that they will generally round in the business's favor? Talk about micromanaging… If they change the tax rates do you have to update your prices so that they round evenly again? A fairer policy might be "round random" (e.g. 1.23 rounds to 1.20 40% of the time and to 1.25 60% of the time, since .23 is 60% of the way from .20 to .25). That would be harder to game by manipulating the prices. However, you would need to certify that the rounding was actually random; the result wouldn't be obviously correct for any particular transaction, only in aggregate.
jellicle 6y ago
Everyone uses an electronic POS system and it will round however the manufacturer told it to round (which will be correctly). The only people you have to worry about cheating you out of 3-4 cents in a world without pennies (the maximum you can be cheated) would be people without electronic systems. Which is to say, no one.
- Loughla 6y ago
  I just disagree with this. We will see Wal-Mart and other chain retailers make their own POS software/systems. 3-4 cents isn't a lot. Unless it's added up by all of the people shopping in those places over the course of a year. The incentive to cheat the system is there, therefore the system will 100% be cheated. That's The American Way, in my experience.
  - jcrawfordor 6y ago
    Wal-Mart is also a huge corporation and every single attorney general, not to mention the FTC, would be delighted to learn that they're so clearly and unambiguously violating the law... This kind of fraud would be so easy to detect I just can't see it occurring on any large scale. The problem would be with small "mom and pop" businesses that could do it for some time without being noticed.
  - jachee 6y ago
    As foretold in Superman III and The Office.
    - DerekL 6y ago
      That movie was titled Office Space, not The Office.
      - jachee 6y ago
        Thanks. It was tired and I was late. ;)
  - 6y ago
crdrost 6y ago
Note that you can also, while you're at it, abolish rounding. You already have this in some sense on gas pumps: the price advertised has taxes included so you are not always playing guess-the-final-total with your money. Just pass a law that requires fair advertising of the actual amount the purchaser will pay, taxes etc. included. If there are special circumstances that might make certain people exempt from a tax -- SNAP is sales-tax free, for instance -- there are several ways to handle that but it's clearer when phrased as a discount rather than as an evasion of a tax.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  > Just pass a law that requires fair advertising of the actual amount the purchaser will pay, taxes etc. included. "Just" anything in America is as OP pointed out an absolute nightmare left-vs-right debacle. The "left" wants to have inclusive pricing for, as you point out, convenience and sanity while politicians on the "right" want to have taxes appended afterwards so that you are smacked in the face with how much the government is wasting your money every time you buy anything.
- Pamar 6y ago
  Well, yes, this... I am European and during my brief stay in the USA the fact that taxes were added at the cashier was awkward. I am sure you had your reasons and if you grow up in that sustem you won't notice much, but it looks a bit counterintuitive to foreigners.
  - excitom 6y ago
    The biggest reason is that sales tax can be applied at the state level, then a county can add a bit more, and a city a bit more still. So for a national chain it's impossible to know the final price to put on an item until the consumer gets to the checkout register.
  - roywiggins 6y ago
    It's insisted upon by anti-tax advocates, so that Americans always get reminded about exactly how much the government is adding onto the price. Otherwise, the theory goes, we would get too happy about taxes.
robbrown451 6y ago
Businesses already do rounding on sales tax, since percentage tax will often be fractional cents. And they do round down if it is below half a cent. I don't see why this would be different. Most likely there would be a law that covers it. (I believe there already is regarding sales tax)

Broken_Hippo 6y ago

Honestly, all folks would have to do is get a receipt that shows how much tax you paid. And even if they do always round up: It won't be that much - up to 4 cents per transaction. 125 transactions would only cost you $5 per month - and besides, businesses have actual costs to using cash. No pennies means less time handing out and counting change and less change to get from the bank. Not to mention the savings at the government level.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

klyrs 6y ago

It's not merely "practice" in Canada, it's the law. And since most transactions are handled by software these days, it's pretty easy to implement and verify (jobs: secret shoppers). Subtler, businesses can try to game their prices to maximize rounding gains; also illegal (jobs: accounting, data analysis). For small businesses with antiquated tills, one should offer grants for upgrades and training (jobs: installation, manufacturing, tech support...).

nybble41 6y ago
> Subtler, businesses can try to game their prices to maximize rounding gains; also illegal (jobs: accounting, data analysis). It's actually illegal there to set prices such that they will generally round in the business's favor? Talk about micromanaging… If they change the tax rates do you have to update your prices so that they round evenly again? A fairer policy might be "round random" (e.g. 1.23 rounds to 1.20 40% of the time and to 1.25 60% of the time, since .23 is 60% of the way from .20 to .25). That would be harder to game by manipulating the prices. However, you would need to certify that the rounding was actually random; the result wouldn't be obviously correct for any particular transaction, only in aggregate.

jellicle 6y ago

Everyone uses an electronic POS system and it will round however the manufacturer told it to round (which will be correctly). The only people you have to worry about cheating you out of 3-4 cents in a world without pennies (the maximum you can be cheated) would be people without electronic systems. Which is to say, no one.

Loughla 6y ago
I just disagree with this. We will see Wal-Mart and other chain retailers make their own POS software/systems. 3-4 cents isn't a lot. Unless it's added up by all of the people shopping in those places over the course of a year. The incentive to cheat the system is there, therefore the system will 100% be cheated. That's The American Way, in my experience.
- jcrawfordor 6y ago
  Wal-Mart is also a huge corporation and every single attorney general, not to mention the FTC, would be delighted to learn that they're so clearly and unambiguously violating the law... This kind of fraud would be so easy to detect I just can't see it occurring on any large scale. The problem would be with small "mom and pop" businesses that could do it for some time without being noticed.
- jachee 6y ago
  As foretold in Superman III and The Office.
  - DerekL 6y ago
    That movie was titled Office Space, not The Office.
    - jachee 6y ago
      Thanks. It was tired and I was late. ;)
- 6y ago

crdrost 6y ago

Note that you can also, while you're at it, abolish rounding. You already have this in some sense on gas pumps: the price advertised has taxes included so you are not always playing guess-the-final-total with your money. Just pass a law that requires fair advertising of the actual amount the purchaser will pay, taxes etc. included. If there are special circumstances that might make certain people exempt from a tax -- SNAP is sales-tax free, for instance -- there are several ways to handle that but it's clearer when phrased as a discount rather than as an evasion of a tax.

arcticbull 6y ago
> Just pass a law that requires fair advertising of the actual amount the purchaser will pay, taxes etc. included. "Just" anything in America is as OP pointed out an absolute nightmare left-vs-right debacle. The "left" wants to have inclusive pricing for, as you point out, convenience and sanity while politicians on the "right" want to have taxes appended afterwards so that you are smacked in the face with how much the government is wasting your money every time you buy anything.
Pamar 6y ago
Well, yes, this... I am European and during my brief stay in the USA the fact that taxes were added at the cashier was awkward. I am sure you had your reasons and if you grow up in that sustem you won't notice much, but it looks a bit counterintuitive to foreigners.
- excitom 6y ago
  The biggest reason is that sales tax can be applied at the state level, then a county can add a bit more, and a city a bit more still. So for a national chain it's impossible to know the final price to put on an item until the consumer gets to the checkout register.
- roywiggins 6y ago
  It's insisted upon by anti-tax advocates, so that Americans always get reminded about exactly how much the government is adding onto the price. Otherwise, the theory goes, we would get too happy about taxes.

robbrown451 6y ago

Businesses already do rounding on sales tax, since percentage tax will often be fractional cents. And they do round down if it is below half a cent. I don't see why this would be different. Most likely there would be a law that covers it. (I believe there already is regarding sales tax)