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The US penny is perhaps the most illustrative example of why I am wary that the US government can do ANYTHING efficiently. The continued existence of the penny

The US penny is perhaps the most illustrative example of why I am wary that the US government can do ANYTHING efficiently. The continued existence of the penny is absolutely ludicrous. Here we have something that has almost zero economic value to everyone involved. It costs more to mint them than they're worth. It likely costs more to even transport or count them than they're worth. It is almost entirely just economic drag on every transaction that involves them. Yet somehow, we can't find the political will to _just_ _stop_ _making_ them. Momentum truly is the most powerful force in politics. It's sad, because it doesn't have to be this way. I am in favor of socialized health care. I could even be convinced that some amount of UBI may be a good idea. I am in favor of a strong social safety net. But the fact that this country can't even figure out how to stop making a coin that is worthless tells me that it is probably asking a little too much to expect that the federal government can competently manage anything as complex as healthcare or the livelihoods of millions.

derefr 6y ago
> can't even figure out how to stop making a coin that is worthless One might wonder whether the problem isn't bureaucracy per se, but rather that there are actually many larger dead-weight losses in the government that are being focused on, such that this one is comparatively trivial and doesn't even register on the priorities list. For everything else you can say about it, the current administration has been heavily focused on "ways the government can be improved by doing less" (i.e. "red-tape reduction.") And yet, it has still not even mentioned considering doing this. I'm guessing the elimination of pennies is just not the low-hanging fruit it seems to be — there are fruit even lower.
lolsal 6y ago
> It costs more to mint them than they're worth. Isn't this largely irrelevant since the producer of pennies makes up for this when they print any other form of currency? > But the fact that this country can't even figure out how to stop making a coin that is worthless tells me that it is probably asking a little too much to expect that the federal government can competently manage anything as complex as healthcare or the livelihoods of millions. The worth of a unit of currency should not be measured by how much it costs to produce. If we're using that metric a $1 note has just as much worth as a $5 note, and a $20 note is equivalent to a $50 note. A single $50 pays for plenty of pennies in terms of cost. I honestly don't know where I stand on keeping/removing the penny, but I do know from personal experience that counting and saving pennies was useful for me when I was very poor. I know that rounding down saves the consumer money, but putting the savings in a jar and treating yourself to something when you cash in your jar is something of value that is lost. I don't count pennies these days, but I used to, and I definitely picked up pennies off the street. Should we design economic/currency policy to 'help' the poor instead of actually helping the poor? Probably not, but I wince when I hear people say that pennies are worthless.
- dlivingston 6y ago
  If we assume that it takes 2 seconds to pick up a penny, and you were to pick up pennies continuously, then you would be “earning” only $18 / hour.
  - SamBam 6y ago
    So? That's higher than minimum wage. Plenty of people on HN may find it worth their time to pinch pennies.
  - lolsal 6y ago
    Ok, but if I pick up pennies between my car and the grocery store the opportunity cost is basically nil, and then after a few months I'd have a non-trivial amount of cash.
    - dlivingston 6y ago
      If you picked up 10 pennies a day, you would only have $3 at the end of the month. Assuming you are not living in poverty, these sort of hyper-frugal behaviors are quite interesting to me from a psychological perspective.
mamon 6y ago
> It costs more to mint them than they're worth. That's irrelevant since pennies are multiple use. In fact they probably get used in hundred thousands of transactions in their typical lifetime.

derefr 6y ago

> can't even figure out how to stop making a coin that is worthless One might wonder whether the problem isn't bureaucracy per se, but rather that there are actually many larger dead-weight losses in the government that are being focused on, such that this one is comparatively trivial and doesn't even register on the priorities list. For everything else you can say about it, the current administration has been heavily focused on "ways the government can be improved by doing less" (i.e. "red-tape reduction.") And yet, it has still not even mentioned considering doing this. I'm guessing the elimination of pennies is just not the low-hanging fruit it seems to be — there are fruit even lower.

lolsal 6y ago

> It costs more to mint them than they're worth. Isn't this largely irrelevant since the producer of pennies makes up for this when they print any other form of currency? > But the fact that this country can't even figure out how to stop making a coin that is worthless tells me that it is probably asking a little too much to expect that the federal government can competently manage anything as complex as healthcare or the livelihoods of millions. The worth of a unit of currency should not be measured by how much it costs to produce. If we're using that metric a $1 note has just as much worth as a $5 note, and a $20 note is equivalent to a $50 note. A single $50 pays for plenty of pennies in terms of cost. I honestly don't know where I stand on keeping/removing the penny, but I do know from personal experience that counting and saving pennies was useful for me when I was very poor. I know that rounding down saves the consumer money, but putting the savings in a jar and treating yourself to something when you cash in your jar is something of value that is lost. I don't count pennies these days, but I used to, and I definitely picked up pennies off the street. Should we design economic/currency policy to 'help' the poor instead of actually helping the poor? Probably not, but I wince when I hear people say that pennies are worthless.

dlivingston 6y ago
If we assume that it takes 2 seconds to pick up a penny, and you were to pick up pennies continuously, then you would be “earning” only $18 / hour.
- SamBam 6y ago
  So? That's higher than minimum wage. Plenty of people on HN may find it worth their time to pinch pennies.
- lolsal 6y ago
  Ok, but if I pick up pennies between my car and the grocery store the opportunity cost is basically nil, and then after a few months I'd have a non-trivial amount of cash.
  - dlivingston 6y ago
    If you picked up 10 pennies a day, you would only have $3 at the end of the month. Assuming you are not living in poverty, these sort of hyper-frugal behaviors are quite interesting to me from a psychological perspective.

mamon 6y ago

> It costs more to mint them than they're worth. That's irrelevant since pennies are multiple use. In fact they probably get used in hundred thousands of transactions in their typical lifetime.