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1. The pilot (Ashby) and NFO (Schweitzer) were subsequently convicted of conduct unbecoming for destroying evidence; each was dismissed from the Marine Corps (t

1. The pilot (Ashby) and NFO (Schweitzer) were subsequently convicted of conduct unbecoming for destroying evidence; each was dismissed from the Marine Corps (the officer equivalent of a dishonorable discharge, which in turn is the equivalent of a felony conviction, which stays with you for life), and Ashby was imprisoned for six months. [0] 2. The USS Greeneville incident was a career-ender for pretty much everyone who was even remotely involved; that's small comfort to the families of the people who died, but the problem seems to have been one of failing do one last precautionary check after doing others, and Murphy's Law worked its magic. I wasn't a sub sailor so I can't really opine as to whether or not that was grossly negligent or simply one of those stupid mistakes that humans sometimes make. [1] [0] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(1998) https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(199... [1] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ehime_Maru_and_USS_Greeneville_collision#/Findings_of_the_court https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ehime_Maru_and_USS_Greeneville_c...

lultimouomo 6y ago
So the civilian contractor who set on fire a submarine with no casualties (linked elsewhere in this thread) got 17 years of jail, but the military pilot who killed 20 innocent civilians (in an allied country, while not even being at war) got 6 months. Not a blazing example of military accountability.
- jvanderbot 6y ago
  Yes, intent matters.
- dctoedt 6y ago
  Well, let's see: On the one hand, the Marine pilot did something that in different circumstances he would have been required to do (low-level flight, e.g., in combat and/or in training for combat). Moreover, there was considerable doubt whether they had been provided with up-to-date maps showing what areas were off-limits. They were acquitted of the manslaughter charges — but they were later cashiered for destroying evidence, i.e., a videotape of the accident [2], because for military officers, integrity is supposed to be at the top of the list of required personal qualities. Oh, and let's not forget that the pilot and NFO had previously had good records (AFAIK) and for many years had been putting their asses on the line for their country every single time they took off in a plane. (There's an old joke that when you join the U.S. military, you sign a blank check made out to the People of the United States of America, payable in any amount up to and including your life.) On the other hand, we have the civilian "yardbird" who, wanting to go home, intentionally started a fire that led to the essentially-total loss [3] of a major national military asset. "Rear Adm. Richard Breckenridge, a submarine group commander, said the ship's extensive damage had ripple effects around the Navy, delaying repairs on other vessels and leading to longer deployments for thousands of sailors." [4] If you don't see why that might lead to very-different sentences for the two cases, I'm afraid we don't have much else to discuss on that point. [2] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(1998) https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(199... [3] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/USS_Miami_(SSN-755)#/2012_fire https://www.wikiwand.com/en/USS_Miami_(SSN-755)#/2012_fire [4] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/15/nuclear-submarine-fire/1990663/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/15/nuclea...
  - lultimouomo 6y ago
    They destroyed the evidence that would have proved if they were intentionally trying to sneak below the cable car or not... and they got away with a grand total of 6 months of detention. This is beyond ridiculous, no civilian would have had it so easy. But I agree, I don't think we have much else to discuss, indeed.

lultimouomo 6y ago

So the civilian contractor who set on fire a submarine with no casualties (linked elsewhere in this thread) got 17 years of jail, but the military pilot who killed 20 innocent civilians (in an allied country, while not even being at war) got 6 months. Not a blazing example of military accountability.

jvanderbot 6y ago
Yes, intent matters.
dctoedt 6y ago
Well, let's see: On the one hand, the Marine pilot did something that in different circumstances he would have been required to do (low-level flight, e.g., in combat and/or in training for combat). Moreover, there was considerable doubt whether they had been provided with up-to-date maps showing what areas were off-limits. They were acquitted of the manslaughter charges — but they were later cashiered for destroying evidence, i.e., a videotape of the accident [2], because for military officers, integrity is supposed to be at the top of the list of required personal qualities. Oh, and let's not forget that the pilot and NFO had previously had good records (AFAIK) and for many years had been putting their asses on the line for their country every single time they took off in a plane. (There's an old joke that when you join the U.S. military, you sign a blank check made out to the People of the United States of America, payable in any amount up to and including your life.) On the other hand, we have the civilian "yardbird" who, wanting to go home, intentionally started a fire that led to the essentially-total loss [3] of a major national military asset. "Rear Adm. Richard Breckenridge, a submarine group commander, said the ship's extensive damage had ripple effects around the Navy, delaying repairs on other vessels and leading to longer deployments for thousands of sailors." [4] If you don't see why that might lead to very-different sentences for the two cases, I'm afraid we don't have much else to discuss on that point. [2] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(1998) https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(199... [3] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/USS_Miami_(SSN-755)#/2012_fire https://www.wikiwand.com/en/USS_Miami_(SSN-755)#/2012_fire [4] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/15/nuclear-submarine-fire/1990663/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/15/nuclea...
- lultimouomo 6y ago
  They destroyed the evidence that would have proved if they were intentionally trying to sneak below the cable car or not... and they got away with a grand total of 6 months of detention. This is beyond ridiculous, no civilian would have had it so easy. But I agree, I don't think we have much else to discuss, indeed.