5 ms·

Yet another argument to price carbon emissions. It will not only not destroy the economy, it will unleash innovation and propel us into the bright future. (And

Yet another argument to price carbon emissions. It will not only not destroy the economy, it will unleash innovation and propel us into the bright future. (And create fun, intellectually challenging jobs for us engineers)

barney54 6y ago
I'm not sure how pricing carbon dioxide emission will change datacenter operations given that Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, and Apple all have serious carbon dioxide reduction targets and all already by as much co2-free electricity as they consume.
- sampo 6y ago
  It is difficult to know how much of that is currently cosmetic and how much is real. An actual carbon tax on fossil fuels would make everything that utilizes fossil fuels more expensive. Building materials, transporting materials by trucks, people commuting by cars, generating backup electricity for those moments when wind or solar energy do not momentarily produce enough.
- perfunctory 6y ago
  > all have serious carbon dioxide reduction targets They will drop their targets the moment the competition intensifies and threatens their profits. Voluntary commitments do not work. We have learned it the hard way over the last 30 years. Paris accord is a primary example of that.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
sampo 6y ago
> to price carbon emissions "A carbon tax offers the most cost-effective lever to reduce carbon emissions" is what 27 Nobel laureate economists and about 4000 other economists said in a statement in January 2019 [1]. There are some opposing opinions on some details [2]. Anyway, to an outsider this appears to be the scientific consensus. [1] https://www.econstatement.org/ https://www.econstatement.org/ [2] http://standupeconomist.com/why-im-not-signing-the-economists-statement-on-carbon-dividends/ http://standupeconomist.com/why-im-not-signing-the-economist...
- iagovar 6y ago
  Having a carbon tax would require to measure carbon output somewhere, isn't it? How would that work? I mean, where in the chain does the measure take place? How is it accounted? For some reason carbon tax seems like a lot of extra and complicated steps to just tax fossil fuels way more. If we tax oil, coal and gas a lot, that's basically a simple way of taxing carbon emissions, isn't it? It's way simpler to manage, and actually sound like something realistic.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - sampo 6y ago
    > For some reason carbon tax seems like a lot of extra and complicated steps to just tax fossil fuels way more. This is what carbon tax means. Taxing fuels according to their carbon content. Carbon content is easy to determine precisely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax The imprecise part would be estimating and placing import taxes for products and services from countries that do not take part in the carbon tax system.
    - gpm 6y ago
      > The imprecise part would be estimating and placing import taxes for products and services from countries that do not take part in the carbon tax system. And countries that would pretend to tax carbon but "not try that hard" to stop illegal untaxed fossil fuel use.
    - kps 6y ago
      Yes, Canada has a carbon tax but no carbon tariff, with the obvious incentive to move economic activity to dirtier countries.

barney54 6y ago

I'm not sure how pricing carbon dioxide emission will change datacenter operations given that Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, and Apple all have serious carbon dioxide reduction targets and all already by as much co2-free electricity as they consume.

sampo 6y ago
It is difficult to know how much of that is currently cosmetic and how much is real. An actual carbon tax on fossil fuels would make everything that utilizes fossil fuels more expensive. Building materials, transporting materials by trucks, people commuting by cars, generating backup electricity for those moments when wind or solar energy do not momentarily produce enough.
perfunctory 6y ago
> all have serious carbon dioxide reduction targets They will drop their targets the moment the competition intensifies and threatens their profits. Voluntary commitments do not work. We have learned it the hard way over the last 30 years. Paris accord is a primary example of that.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

sampo 6y ago

> to price carbon emissions "A carbon tax offers the most cost-effective lever to reduce carbon emissions" is what 27 Nobel laureate economists and about 4000 other economists said in a statement in January 2019 [1]. There are some opposing opinions on some details [2]. Anyway, to an outsider this appears to be the scientific consensus. [1] https://www.econstatement.org/ https://www.econstatement.org/ [2] http://standupeconomist.com/why-im-not-signing-the-economists-statement-on-carbon-dividends/ http://standupeconomist.com/why-im-not-signing-the-economist...

iagovar 6y ago
Having a carbon tax would require to measure carbon output somewhere, isn't it? How would that work? I mean, where in the chain does the measure take place? How is it accounted? For some reason carbon tax seems like a lot of extra and complicated steps to just tax fossil fuels way more. If we tax oil, coal and gas a lot, that's basically a simple way of taxing carbon emissions, isn't it? It's way simpler to manage, and actually sound like something realistic.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- sampo 6y ago
  > For some reason carbon tax seems like a lot of extra and complicated steps to just tax fossil fuels way more. This is what carbon tax means. Taxing fuels according to their carbon content. Carbon content is easy to determine precisely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax The imprecise part would be estimating and placing import taxes for products and services from countries that do not take part in the carbon tax system.
  - gpm 6y ago
    > The imprecise part would be estimating and placing import taxes for products and services from countries that do not take part in the carbon tax system. And countries that would pretend to tax carbon but "not try that hard" to stop illegal untaxed fossil fuel use.
  - kps 6y ago
    Yes, Canada has a carbon tax but no carbon tariff, with the obvious incentive to move economic activity to dirtier countries.