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Counterpoint: while on a human level it is right and moral to care and empathize for those in poor conditions, in no way do the "barons" of the global north or

Counterpoint: while on a human level it is right and moral to care and empathize for those in poor conditions, in no way do the "barons" of the global north or their countries owe the "global south" improvement of living conditions. I don't say that in ignorance of history or out of apathy but solely because countries are sovreign and the right for self determination of people in a soveign country means those people decide and take upon the responsibility of their fate. You can throw money,education or people at 3rd world countries but ultimately, political change and security is what they need to make their country friendly to global commerce which will enable them to escape poverty. This means they have to get past internal divisions and get rid of corruption no matter the cost. Democracy does not work for every country, especially for poorly educated and majority illiterate countries, so they need to resist western pressure until they mature a bit more. But no matter what, those people must decide their fate. Yes, the north/west should help them with humanitarian needs and where it makes sense invest in them. No, the west/north should not interfere in their politics or accept responsibiltiy for their fate. If Bill Gates and friends owe anyone,it is the people of their own country. Plenty of poverty in the US even if it doesn't compare to Africa. It isn't right to criticize a well intended act of generosity and call the person racist. Colonialism was racist, bill gates is not. If Bill Gates saved even one African child's life,how many people can say the same, even in Africa or the "global south"? Even if the rich "global north" is being racist, I think I prefer having that in the world than cynical onlookers that are of no help other than to critique those helping.

jahaja 6y ago
> I don't say that in ignorance of history I can't see how you could write that without ignoring history. Colonialism was only ended ~70 years ago. Since then there's been a debt burden in its place. Add to that the direct coercive influence the global north, especially the US, have applied to the global south and this doesn't exactly paints a good picture of their supposed sovereignty.
- badrabbit 6y ago
  That's what I meant,being fully aware of that history, a sovreign nation is not owed further interference into it's internal affairs because of previous interference. Plenty of aid and interference has already happened in addition to the west cancelling the debt of most african nations. The ideq that you think you owe them further interference is still colonial in nature,as if your wise interference/debt helps the inferior poor. You should respect their sovreignity and help them be responsible for their own fate. Look at how india is transforming over time,singapore turned into a global commerce hub and a few other success stories that happened because the people made it happen,not because the colonial masters interfered once again.
  - jahaja 6y ago
    Reparations is not interference. Debt forgiveness is not interference. An IMF loan that's granted if certain "reforms" are introduced is though.
    - badrabbit 6y ago
      Depriving a society of the consequences of its decisons is interference. Reparations is to help white guilt not the wronged people. IMF does not owe countries a loan, conditions to remediate risk makes sense.
      - jahaja 6y ago
        Wow. That's just ahistorical sociopathy. Are you willfully ignoring that many of the consequences are not caused by their decisions. > Reparations is to help white guilt not the wronged people Non-sense. Because you feel it is?
trabant00 6y ago
> If Bill Gates saved even one African child's life,how many people can say the same, even in Africa or the "global south"? While Bill Gates saved numerous people in poor countries (not only Africa) he doesn't do nearly enough to start important conversations on racial issues /s Really, fuck the guy who wrote this article. Bill Gates is untouchable. But not many are and they can be scared into not getting involved with sensitive issues for the fear of being attacked in this matter. This kind of shit journalism is actively scaring people from making a difference, as small as they can.
- jahaja 6y ago
  The idea is to focus on solving the cause not the symptoms. Should a philanthropic King that still supports and perpetuates absolute monarchy be honored for his gifts (which themselves ultimately are created by his subjects labour)?
  - trabant00 6y ago
    > The idea is to focus on solving the cause not the symptoms. No. The idea it to shut up and put in actual work. Until you do that you have no clue what the causes or the symptoms are.
    - jahaja 6y ago
      So your suggestion is to shut up and be happy?
  - badrabbit 6y ago
    Yes,yes he should be so long has his gifts feed a starving person and save them from dying. What would you have him do? Fund a rebel movement and start a civil war to overthrow the monarch? Well CIA did plenty of that type of "philantrophy" and I think the result speaks for itself.
    - jahaja 6y ago
      You can't see how superficial that is?

jahaja 6y ago

> I don't say that in ignorance of history I can't see how you could write that without ignoring history. Colonialism was only ended ~70 years ago. Since then there's been a debt burden in its place. Add to that the direct coercive influence the global north, especially the US, have applied to the global south and this doesn't exactly paints a good picture of their supposed sovereignty.

badrabbit 6y ago
That's what I meant,being fully aware of that history, a sovreign nation is not owed further interference into it's internal affairs because of previous interference. Plenty of aid and interference has already happened in addition to the west cancelling the debt of most african nations. The ideq that you think you owe them further interference is still colonial in nature,as if your wise interference/debt helps the inferior poor. You should respect their sovreignity and help them be responsible for their own fate. Look at how india is transforming over time,singapore turned into a global commerce hub and a few other success stories that happened because the people made it happen,not because the colonial masters interfered once again.
- jahaja 6y ago
  Reparations is not interference. Debt forgiveness is not interference. An IMF loan that's granted if certain "reforms" are introduced is though.
  - badrabbit 6y ago
    Depriving a society of the consequences of its decisons is interference. Reparations is to help white guilt not the wronged people. IMF does not owe countries a loan, conditions to remediate risk makes sense.
    - jahaja 6y ago
      Wow. That's just ahistorical sociopathy. Are you willfully ignoring that many of the consequences are not caused by their decisions. > Reparations is to help white guilt not the wronged people Non-sense. Because you feel it is?

trabant00 6y ago

> If Bill Gates saved even one African child's life,how many people can say the same, even in Africa or the "global south"? While Bill Gates saved numerous people in poor countries (not only Africa) he doesn't do nearly enough to start important conversations on racial issues /s Really, fuck the guy who wrote this article. Bill Gates is untouchable. But not many are and they can be scared into not getting involved with sensitive issues for the fear of being attacked in this matter. This kind of shit journalism is actively scaring people from making a difference, as small as they can.

jahaja 6y ago
The idea is to focus on solving the cause not the symptoms. Should a philanthropic King that still supports and perpetuates absolute monarchy be honored for his gifts (which themselves ultimately are created by his subjects labour)?
- trabant00 6y ago
  > The idea is to focus on solving the cause not the symptoms. No. The idea it to shut up and put in actual work. Until you do that you have no clue what the causes or the symptoms are.
  - jahaja 6y ago
    So your suggestion is to shut up and be happy?
- badrabbit 6y ago
  Yes,yes he should be so long has his gifts feed a starving person and save them from dying. What would you have him do? Fund a rebel movement and start a civil war to overthrow the monarch? Well CIA did plenty of that type of "philantrophy" and I think the result speaks for itself.
  - jahaja 6y ago
    You can't see how superficial that is?