5 ms·

I think one of Nokia's problems might be an ego that is too big.

by Tichy 16y ago

tptacek 16y ago
Many companies have house typefaces, and, if you're going to do that, you might as well have the page that says you got Bruno Maag to do it. Really, when you get to the size of a company like Nokia, you're inevitably going to have an enormous marketing budget just for the boring stuff, like printing costs and designing the N+100th version of your N+100th product's N+5th slick. These are marketing dollars that are getting spent not out of ego, but simply to keep the train on the tracks. Compared to those expenses, no matter how much it costs to engage Dalton Maag, it's still probably a rounding error. Wouldn't you rather live in a world where big companies occasionally gave excellent typographers interesting problems to work on, rather than paying someone to round the corners on FF Meta or something?
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > you're inevitably going to have an enormous marketing budget If your products are actually good and/or desirable, you may discover that the marketing budget can be reduced and the surplus money be used to develop the next generation good and desirable products.
  - mootothemax 16y ago
    If your products are actually good and/or desirable... What, so, e.g. Apple don't have large marketing budgets... or that they're wrong to invest in marketing?
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      Just look how much free publicity Apple gets by having a legion of dedicated fans. Imagine how much money they'd need to get that kind of media/social media coverage if nobody liked their products.
      - chc 16y ago
        And yet Apple still has a huge marketing budget (which really should be even bigger, except they put their storefronts in a separate part of the budget). I mean, yes, you need to allocate money differently depending on your market position, but large companies spend a lot on marketing, whether they're Apple or Nokia. So I don't understand your point. Nokia spends a lot on marketing. Apple spends a lot on marketing. Nokia has a house typeface. Apple has a house typeface. Is it just "I don't like Nokia's products"?
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
  - tptacek 16y ago
    You missed my point, which is frustrating, because I lawyered up my (simple) point with a whole lot of extra words exactly to avoid this unproductive branch of the discussion.
    - sachinag 16y ago
      Yay HN circa 2011!
      - scott_s 16y ago
        Considering that everyone on this reply chain has been posting for at least 3 years, I don't think we can blame recent trends.
        sachinag 16y ago
        Good people can be corrupted by bad influences over time. The douchebaggery on HN is at all-time highs and good people are being sucked in. I've got enough karma to spare that I'm happy to be downvoted to oblivion on this, but it's really got to stop. Stop correcting people's grammar and spelling, stop assuming incompetence in others, stop nitpicking single words/phrases in thoughtful comments, and stop willfully misreading what others write (which is what happened here despite Thomas's deliberate efforts to avoid that very thing).
        scott_s 16y ago
        I have difficulty making this call myself because of confirmation bias.
        rbanffy 16y ago
        My comment was mostly about focus. Nokia has one single problem: they need to build phones people actually want. They have to develop the phones people will want in 2012 right now so they are shipping and working very well (Apple's iPhone has somewhat raised expectations) in 2012. Elop used the burning platform metaphor. If it's burning, the sole focus of the whole company should be on building a new one. A new corporate font is not a competitive advantage, will not make whatever new platform they build with WP7 more attractive to end users and is, thus, a waste of time and resources. The cost of having a font designed is tiny when compared to the cost of reformulating the visual identity of the company, something that's bound to happen. Marketing should worry about selling as many current phones as possible and nothing else. I can't see how a new corporate font fits in this panorama.
- Tichy 16y ago
  I agree, actually, it is just that the timing seems rather bad. But of course they can not put their marketing staff on hold until they have a product worth marketing for...

I think one of Nokia's problems might be an ego that is too big.

by Tichy 16y ago

I think one of Nokia's problems might be an ego that is too big.

Many companies have house typefaces, and, if you're going to do that, you might as well have the page that says you got Bruno Maag to do it. Really, when you get to the size of a company like Nokia, you're inevitably going to have an enormous marketing budget just for the boring stuff, like printing costs and designing the N+100th version of your N+100th product's N+5th slick. These are marketing dollars that are getting spent not out of ego, but simply to keep the train on the tracks. Compared to those expenses, no matter how much it costs to engage Dalton Maag, it's still probably a rounding error. Wouldn't you rather live in a world where big companies occasionally gave excellent typographers interesting problems to work on, rather than paying someone to round the corners on FF Meta or something?

rbanffy 16y ago
> you're inevitably going to have an enormous marketing budget If your products are actually good and/or desirable, you may discover that the marketing budget can be reduced and the surplus money be used to develop the next generation good and desirable products.
- mootothemax 16y ago
  If your products are actually good and/or desirable... What, so, e.g. Apple don't have large marketing budgets... or that they're wrong to invest in marketing?
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    Just look how much free publicity Apple gets by having a legion of dedicated fans. Imagine how much money they'd need to get that kind of media/social media coverage if nobody liked their products.
    - chc 16y ago
      And yet Apple still has a huge marketing budget (which really should be even bigger, except they put their storefronts in a separate part of the budget). I mean, yes, you need to allocate money differently depending on your market position, but large companies spend a lot on marketing, whether they're Apple or Nokia. So I don't understand your point. Nokia spends a lot on marketing. Apple spends a lot on marketing. Nokia has a house typeface. Apple has a house typeface. Is it just "I don't like Nokia's products"?
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
- tptacek 16y ago
  You missed my point, which is frustrating, because I lawyered up my (simple) point with a whole lot of extra words exactly to avoid this unproductive branch of the discussion.
  - sachinag 16y ago
    Yay HN circa 2011!
    - scott_s 16y ago
      Considering that everyone on this reply chain has been posting for at least 3 years, I don't think we can blame recent trends.
      - sachinag 16y ago
        Good people can be corrupted by bad influences over time. The douchebaggery on HN is at all-time highs and good people are being sucked in. I've got enough karma to spare that I'm happy to be downvoted to oblivion on this, but it's really got to stop. Stop correcting people's grammar and spelling, stop assuming incompetence in others, stop nitpicking single words/phrases in thoughtful comments, and stop willfully misreading what others write (which is what happened here despite Thomas's deliberate efforts to avoid that very thing).
        scott_s 16y ago
        I have difficulty making this call myself because of confirmation bias.
        rbanffy 16y ago
        My comment was mostly about focus. Nokia has one single problem: they need to build phones people actually want. They have to develop the phones people will want in 2012 right now so they are shipping and working very well (Apple's iPhone has somewhat raised expectations) in 2012. Elop used the burning platform metaphor. If it's burning, the sole focus of the whole company should be on building a new one. A new corporate font is not a competitive advantage, will not make whatever new platform they build with WP7 more attractive to end users and is, thus, a waste of time and resources. The cost of having a font designed is tiny when compared to the cost of reformulating the visual identity of the company, something that's bound to happen. Marketing should worry about selling as many current phones as possible and nothing else. I can't see how a new corporate font fits in this panorama.
Tichy 16y ago
I agree, actually, it is just that the timing seems rather bad. But of course they can not put their marketing staff on hold until they have a product worth marketing for...