3 ms·

Things it can't do (extended): - operate in your particular setting (it's likely over-trained for that specific environment) - run for long periods of time as

by bArray 6y ago

Things it can't do (extended): - operate in your particular setting (it's likely over-trained for that specific environment) - run for long periods of time as a fully autonomous robot - be anywhere near small humans or animals - do any of the tasks in the video with any kind of speed or precision - learn new tasks - handle multiple objectives, or even process the request of a single objective reliably This is nowhere near being consumer grade. It'll either ship half-baked or you'll have to get on the "it's just around the corner" train, along with the autonomous vehicle guys.

spyckie2 6y ago
Yes, this is the point. The market is replacing housework, but with its capabilities it can only replace a specific subset of housework currently. However, if there is just one really valuable thing it can do, then it may be worth it even if there are 50 things it can't do.
koliber 6y ago
You're right about this expanded list of things it can't do. However, the conclusion is a bit on the negative side. The Roomba or any of the autonomous grass mowing robots can't do any of the things you mention either, and yet they are commercially successful in the consumer world. The article mentions that this robot is still a research platform, so as you say, it is not currently ready for consumers. However, there is a lot of potential here despite of the limitations.
- martin-adams 6y ago
  The more single purpose the device, the lower the price point would need to be. The Roomba also is a smaller device, so you’re not compromising living space either.
  - nmca 6y ago
    Right, just like scientific calculators and mobile phones :)
- bArray 6y ago
  > the conclusion is a bit on the negative side. It was to highlight that this really isn't the "do everything" robot that it's being advertised as that some are assuming it will be. > The Roomba or any of the autonomous grass mowing robots > can't do any of the things you mention either, and yet > they are commercially successful in the consumer world. No, but they are significantly cheaper single purpose robots that do their intended tasks well. This is aiming to be a more generic robot that does everything badly, at a much higher cost. > there is a lot of potential here despite of the > limitations Well, the problem for researchers beforehand wasn't a lack of nice robot platforms to use. Some robotic arm controlled by a laptop on some wheels will already get you quite a lot of this functionality. Really what a lot of researchers want is a nice framework that already offers a bunch of functionality they don't want to program themselves, so they can work on the more exciting cutting edge stuff. It needs to be robust enough to allow them to hack on random research hardware. The Pepper robot falls slightly short on this for example, as many places have purchased one hoping it could be a robotic PoS/mobile FAQ - in reality it was just a mostly buggy experience for consumers. I had a look at the code, it seems to run ROS, offer some possibilities, but I couldn't see at a quick glance some high level functionality they could hack on top of (although I could have missed it).
simias 6y ago
I'm very skeptical of fully autonomous vehicles in the short term but I'm more optimistic for this robot. The big issues for autonomous vehicles are mainly: - You have to deal with and anticipate the behavior of dozens of other people/animals/machines. - If you mess up you can injure or kill people. This robot doesn't really have either of these issues. You'd have to be careful around babies and very small animals, that's true, but there's still a huge potential market even if you remove small pet owners and parents of toddlers. Beyond that training the machine to identify common household items and tell it where to put them (the remote goes there, the backpack goes there, the shoes go there etc...) doesn't seem too far fetched. Being able to do the laundry (minus any ironing and assuming that you have a drying machine) also seems feasible to me. It won't be able to learn new tasks but if it's successful enough the company making them could continuously update it to implement new features, similar to how smartphone voice assistants keep improving and becoming smarter as engineers handle more corner cases. Now are these features worth the current price tag, or even half of it? Absolutely not IMO, but that's obviously only for rich early adopters at the moment. If it gains enough traction I'm sure it can improve a lot and fast while cutting the price.
koheripbal 6y ago
Since when do we define the value of something by the infinite list of things it can't do? I could make a list a mile long of all the things my dishwasher cannot do... does that mean no HNs have dishwashers?
- bArray 6y ago
  > Since when do we define the value of something by the > infinite list of things it can't do? When that infinite list is things people want. I speaking of course from the "consumer" perspective and outlining some reasons why this robot is many, many years away from being ready for that market. This particular robot will likely never be anything other than a research platform that has all support dropped for it after a few years. > I could make a list a mile long of all the things my > dishwasher cannot do... does that mean no HNs have > dishwashers? Your dishwasher is not an autonomous robot, arguably it's not even a robot. It does one very specific task mostly well. This robot is marketed as some generic home automation machine, which it isn't.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    I think you're looking at this the wrong way. It only needs to be able to do juuust enough work to justify its cost (obviously not true yet). Roomba is, for example, an even more limited device, but since it does one thing well enough to justify a $500-$900 price. Talking about all the myriad of things it can't do is just pointless.
    - bArray 6y ago
      The point I'm making is, this robot is being sold on the idea of some magical do-all machine around your house, when the reality is far different. The problems I stated are really some of (but not all) the key problems that need to be solved in order for it to do as the advertising suggests. To put the problem into perspective, with billions of dollars man could send people to the moon, but is still unable to solve some of these fundamental robotics problems with similar funding. I agree though, if this is ever to be a consumer product then it needs a massive reduction in scope and price drop (depending on what problem it solves). It's hard to think of a problem that is as commonly shared and simplistic in scope as hoovering without being a gimmick though. You've got cooking which is basically automated through meal prep (e.g. microwave meals or even fast food services). You've got cleaning clothes - but the scope is enormous. Dusting and putting small items back in their correct location may be the only real possibility.
ideals 6y ago
Let's build a list of things it can do: Record all conversations in your house Record all movement in your house Record every time you enter or leave your house Record how long you spend doing tasks (watching TV, shitting, cooking breakfast) Recommend products for you to purchase based on actions within your house Recommend products to replace the previously recommended product you purchased Send all of your recorded speech and movements to law enforcement

by bArray 6y ago

spyckie2 6y ago

Yes, this is the point. The market is replacing housework, but with its capabilities it can only replace a specific subset of housework currently. However, if there is just one really valuable thing it can do, then it may be worth it even if there are 50 things it can't do.

koliber 6y ago

You're right about this expanded list of things it can't do. However, the conclusion is a bit on the negative side. The Roomba or any of the autonomous grass mowing robots can't do any of the things you mention either, and yet they are commercially successful in the consumer world. The article mentions that this robot is still a research platform, so as you say, it is not currently ready for consumers. However, there is a lot of potential here despite of the limitations.

martin-adams 6y ago
The more single purpose the device, the lower the price point would need to be. The Roomba also is a smaller device, so you’re not compromising living space either.
- nmca 6y ago
  Right, just like scientific calculators and mobile phones :)
bArray 6y ago
> the conclusion is a bit on the negative side. It was to highlight that this really isn't the "do everything" robot that it's being advertised as that some are assuming it will be. > The Roomba or any of the autonomous grass mowing robots > can't do any of the things you mention either, and yet > they are commercially successful in the consumer world. No, but they are significantly cheaper single purpose robots that do their intended tasks well. This is aiming to be a more generic robot that does everything badly, at a much higher cost. > there is a lot of potential here despite of the > limitations Well, the problem for researchers beforehand wasn't a lack of nice robot platforms to use. Some robotic arm controlled by a laptop on some wheels will already get you quite a lot of this functionality. Really what a lot of researchers want is a nice framework that already offers a bunch of functionality they don't want to program themselves, so they can work on the more exciting cutting edge stuff. It needs to be robust enough to allow them to hack on random research hardware. The Pepper robot falls slightly short on this for example, as many places have purchased one hoping it could be a robotic PoS/mobile FAQ - in reality it was just a mostly buggy experience for consumers. I had a look at the code, it seems to run ROS, offer some possibilities, but I couldn't see at a quick glance some high level functionality they could hack on top of (although I could have missed it).

simias 6y ago

I'm very skeptical of fully autonomous vehicles in the short term but I'm more optimistic for this robot. The big issues for autonomous vehicles are mainly: - You have to deal with and anticipate the behavior of dozens of other people/animals/machines. - If you mess up you can injure or kill people. This robot doesn't really have either of these issues. You'd have to be careful around babies and very small animals, that's true, but there's still a huge potential market even if you remove small pet owners and parents of toddlers. Beyond that training the machine to identify common household items and tell it where to put them (the remote goes there, the backpack goes there, the shoes go there etc...) doesn't seem too far fetched. Being able to do the laundry (minus any ironing and assuming that you have a drying machine) also seems feasible to me. It won't be able to learn new tasks but if it's successful enough the company making them could continuously update it to implement new features, similar to how smartphone voice assistants keep improving and becoming smarter as engineers handle more corner cases. Now are these features worth the current price tag, or even half of it? Absolutely not IMO, but that's obviously only for rich early adopters at the moment. If it gains enough traction I'm sure it can improve a lot and fast while cutting the price.

koheripbal 6y ago

Since when do we define the value of something by the infinite list of things it can't do? I could make a list a mile long of all the things my dishwasher cannot do... does that mean no HNs have dishwashers?

bArray 6y ago
> Since when do we define the value of something by the > infinite list of things it can't do? When that infinite list is things people want. I speaking of course from the "consumer" perspective and outlining some reasons why this robot is many, many years away from being ready for that market. This particular robot will likely never be anything other than a research platform that has all support dropped for it after a few years. > I could make a list a mile long of all the things my > dishwasher cannot do... does that mean no HNs have > dishwashers? Your dishwasher is not an autonomous robot, arguably it's not even a robot. It does one very specific task mostly well. This robot is marketed as some generic home automation machine, which it isn't.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  I think you're looking at this the wrong way. It only needs to be able to do juuust enough work to justify its cost (obviously not true yet). Roomba is, for example, an even more limited device, but since it does one thing well enough to justify a $500-$900 price. Talking about all the myriad of things it can't do is just pointless.
  - bArray 6y ago
    The point I'm making is, this robot is being sold on the idea of some magical do-all machine around your house, when the reality is far different. The problems I stated are really some of (but not all) the key problems that need to be solved in order for it to do as the advertising suggests. To put the problem into perspective, with billions of dollars man could send people to the moon, but is still unable to solve some of these fundamental robotics problems with similar funding. I agree though, if this is ever to be a consumer product then it needs a massive reduction in scope and price drop (depending on what problem it solves). It's hard to think of a problem that is as commonly shared and simplistic in scope as hoovering without being a gimmick though. You've got cooking which is basically automated through meal prep (e.g. microwave meals or even fast food services). You've got cleaning clothes - but the scope is enormous. Dusting and putting small items back in their correct location may be the only real possibility.

ideals 6y ago

Let's build a list of things it can do: Record all conversations in your house Record all movement in your house Record every time you enter or leave your house Record how long you spend doing tasks (watching TV, shitting, cooking breakfast) Recommend products for you to purchase based on actions within your house Recommend products to replace the previously recommended product you purchased Send all of your recorded speech and movements to law enforcement