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When talking about journalists, HN comments generally seem pretty antagonistic and hostile. Why is that so? Yes, a lot of cable news is driven by outrage cycles

by pm90 6y ago

When talking about journalists, HN comments generally seem pretty antagonistic and hostile. Why is that so? Yes, a lot of cable news is driven by outrage cycles, its what attracts views and the ad industry follows the views. Unironically, the online media properties of these firms are huge influential operations precisely due to the adtech industry that Silicon Valley has built/enabled ... Journalists that work for non-cable news outlets generally do a pretty good job of reporting on current events. These are very smart folks, trained in the profession of Journalism who often put themselves at risk to report truth to power. And they present it in ways that are easily understandable for their readers... its not an easy job, and there is a spectrum of capability in journalism. I bet readers of HN would be pretty upset if they were similarly stereotyped based on a narrow but vocal minority (e.g. movie-style hackers?). Both Journalists and people in Tech use twitter to have reasonable discussions about current events. It depends on who you follow: you get to select the corner of twitterscape that you want to inhabit.

apsec112 6y ago
"Inside Nick Denton's phony, hypocritical class war against tech workers": https://pando.com/2013/12/26/look-whos-gawking-inside-nick-dentons-phony-hypocritical-class-war-against-tech-workers/ https://pando.com/2013/12/26/look-whos-gawking-inside-nick-d...
mrweasel 6y ago
You have a point, but it’s like with tech. The stuff that just grinds away in the corner, doing it’s job doesn’t get reportede on. Same with journalists, only the exceptional, be it good or bad, gets discused. And the journalist who done poor or even wrong reporting far exceed those who are exceptional. The largest group, the boring middle who just grinds away, doing their job, they aren’t interesting enough to be debated.
- pm90 6y ago
  Yes, maybe only the sensational stuff bubbles up. But that doesn’t invalidate the excellent work that those in the press corps do every day, just like Oracle or Facebooks shenanigans don’t invalidate the good work most software engineers do even if the shenanigans might be what gets all the attention.
pjc50 6y ago
People speaking truth to power are doing a difficult job that's worth defending. These days most "news content" is speaking power to truth instead. No real effort to uncover truth is made, instead a "both sides" narrative is manufactured and awful people given platforms to lie.
- pm90 6y ago
  Generalizations don’t help with anything, as I’ve pointed out in my original comment.
smsm42 6y ago
> I bet readers of HN would be pretty upset if they were similarly stereotyped based on a narrow but vocal minority Would they be upset or not, but that's what is happening pretty much in every article about "Silicon Valley" that I've read lately in mainstream press. Stereotyping is rampant. And movie-style hackers is way not the worst stereotype promoted by the press. > Both Journalists and people in Tech use twitter to have reasonable discussions about current events Unless "reasonable discussion" means "throwing insults or 'right on, bro!'s at each other", twitter is pretty much built to prevent any possibility of reasonable discussions. I can allow that despite being built to prevent it, some people with heroic superhuman effort manage to do it anyway. I tip off my hat to them and remain astonished why they chose such an unsuitable platform. But then there are people who write US Constitution on a grain of rice - just for the sake of accomplishment. But this is a rare occurrence which is completely atypical to what is usually happening on twitter. Probably the grain of rice thing happens more often.
- pm90 6y ago
  You won’t find the reasonable discussions if you’re only looking at the outrage inducing, highly retweeted comments. Without giving much details, it makes 0 point to continue this discussion as I can simply say that you’re not looking at the “nicer parts” of twitter. Its a complex issue and is not amenable to that kind of reductionism.
  - smsm42 6y ago
    I'm not looking at any parts of twitter, as much as I can avoid it. Twitter is a lost cause, and for any people that are trying to have "nicer parts" there I'd only say - stop supporting the cesspool by your contribution and find a platform that actually tries to support what you're doing instead of trying to ruin it.
    - pm90 6y ago
      Good, you made your choice to forfeit both the good and bad parts and thus I can’t really have a conversation with you about why some people use Twitter well.
flr03 6y ago
Non-journalists people: why can't you just report "the truth" ? why are you trying to push an agenda ? Why are you so lazy that you have to take your informations from Twitter ? Non-tech people: why is this slow ? why do you have so many bugs ? why do you need one week to deliver this but two months for that ? Unless you are familiar with a profession one tend to simplify the challenges of it. That's why I try not to give any judgement on others' work.
- pm90 6y ago
  This is exactly correct. Journalism is a serious profession, and I have mad respect for folks who dedicate their lives to it. It’s one of the pillars of democracy. And yet, that profession is vilified to no end in a forum that I count as reasonable. Which makes it clear that even smart people can be so easily duped into an alternate reality... quite depressing.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by pm90 6y ago

apsec112 6y ago

"Inside Nick Denton's phony, hypocritical class war against tech workers": https://pando.com/2013/12/26/look-whos-gawking-inside-nick-dentons-phony-hypocritical-class-war-against-tech-workers/ https://pando.com/2013/12/26/look-whos-gawking-inside-nick-d...

mrweasel 6y ago

You have a point, but it’s like with tech. The stuff that just grinds away in the corner, doing it’s job doesn’t get reportede on. Same with journalists, only the exceptional, be it good or bad, gets discused. And the journalist who done poor or even wrong reporting far exceed those who are exceptional. The largest group, the boring middle who just grinds away, doing their job, they aren’t interesting enough to be debated.

pm90 6y ago
Yes, maybe only the sensational stuff bubbles up. But that doesn’t invalidate the excellent work that those in the press corps do every day, just like Oracle or Facebooks shenanigans don’t invalidate the good work most software engineers do even if the shenanigans might be what gets all the attention.

pjc50 6y ago

People speaking truth to power are doing a difficult job that's worth defending. These days most "news content" is speaking power to truth instead. No real effort to uncover truth is made, instead a "both sides" narrative is manufactured and awful people given platforms to lie.

pm90 6y ago
Generalizations don’t help with anything, as I’ve pointed out in my original comment.

smsm42 6y ago

> I bet readers of HN would be pretty upset if they were similarly stereotyped based on a narrow but vocal minority Would they be upset or not, but that's what is happening pretty much in every article about "Silicon Valley" that I've read lately in mainstream press. Stereotyping is rampant. And movie-style hackers is way not the worst stereotype promoted by the press. > Both Journalists and people in Tech use twitter to have reasonable discussions about current events Unless "reasonable discussion" means "throwing insults or 'right on, bro!'s at each other", twitter is pretty much built to prevent any possibility of reasonable discussions. I can allow that despite being built to prevent it, some people with heroic superhuman effort manage to do it anyway. I tip off my hat to them and remain astonished why they chose such an unsuitable platform. But then there are people who write US Constitution on a grain of rice - just for the sake of accomplishment. But this is a rare occurrence which is completely atypical to what is usually happening on twitter. Probably the grain of rice thing happens more often.

pm90 6y ago
You won’t find the reasonable discussions if you’re only looking at the outrage inducing, highly retweeted comments. Without giving much details, it makes 0 point to continue this discussion as I can simply say that you’re not looking at the “nicer parts” of twitter. Its a complex issue and is not amenable to that kind of reductionism.
- smsm42 6y ago
  I'm not looking at any parts of twitter, as much as I can avoid it. Twitter is a lost cause, and for any people that are trying to have "nicer parts" there I'd only say - stop supporting the cesspool by your contribution and find a platform that actually tries to support what you're doing instead of trying to ruin it.
  - pm90 6y ago
    Good, you made your choice to forfeit both the good and bad parts and thus I can’t really have a conversation with you about why some people use Twitter well.

flr03 6y ago

Non-journalists people: why can't you just report "the truth" ? why are you trying to push an agenda ? Why are you so lazy that you have to take your informations from Twitter ? Non-tech people: why is this slow ? why do you have so many bugs ? why do you need one week to deliver this but two months for that ? Unless you are familiar with a profession one tend to simplify the challenges of it. That's why I try not to give any judgement on others' work.

pm90 6y ago
This is exactly correct. Journalism is a serious profession, and I have mad respect for folks who dedicate their lives to it. It’s one of the pillars of democracy. And yet, that profession is vilified to no end in a forum that I count as reasonable. Which makes it clear that even smart people can be so easily duped into an alternate reality... quite depressing.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]