4 ms·

I too am an immigrant to the United States and it's frustrating to read this, and not because the reasons most people might think. I came here as a child and I

by zozin 6y ago

I too am an immigrant to the United States and it's frustrating to read this, and not because the reasons most people might think. I came here as a child and I am reminded every day of the privilege American residency and citizenship affords me. The family that I left behind in my home country is still struggling to make ends meet, while I was, as recently as Feb. 2020, making nearly $200K per year as an attorney. I lost my job due to Covid-19, but I am optimistic that my future is bright, mostly because America is still a land of opportunity, unlike the vast majority of the world. Mr. Duruk's thought's are frustrating to read because he assumes his privilege. He assumes he's owed an easy and straightforward journey to citizenship, that his future as a foreign-student shouldn't be jeopardized in the least by the political whims of the local population, as if the ravaged parts of THIS nation which screamed out and democratically elected a protectionist president do not deserve to be heard at the international's community's expense. America isn't perfect, no country is, but having lived here for twenty years, having experienced life in other places, and having traveled internationally, I wouldn't chose another place as my home--and apparently neither would Mr. Duruk. While I do not agree with this administration's immigration policies, I have enough perspective to realize that immigration policy is ultimately beholden to the local population. That is what democracy entails. Nobody owes anybody anything in life, complaining as if you are owed something reeks of privilege and a sense of entitlement.

neokrish 6y ago
Just posted my thoughts, sharing the same sentiments. This totally resonates with me.
0x8BADF00D 6y ago
Reading your comment and the original post really made me thankful for what I have. It goes to show that you have very little control of things in life. There are countless headwinds that influence the decisions you make. Some are invisible.
screye 6y ago
> He assumes he's owed an easy and straightforward journey to citizenship, that his future as a foreign-student shouldn't be jeopardized in the least by the political whims of the local population, as if the ravaged parts of THIS nation which screamed out and democratically elected a protectionist president do not deserve to be heard at the international's community's expense. I don't think that's it. What the person seems to begrudge is them breaking the implicit deal. No one will ever willingly pay $200k to a university if vastly improved career prospects were not promised at the end of it. Countries are expected to have a cohesive foreign policy across Govts. When the world most 'credible' country starts changing policies based on which side of the bed the president woke up on, it can get quite irritating for those stuck in the midst. > I wouldn't chose another place as my home--and apparently neither would Mr. Duruk Being better than a rapidly Islamizing Turkey under dictatorial rule isn't a huge positive. Also, it might be a coincidence, but it can rub people the wrong way that immigration is significantly easier for predominantly white Europeans (no visa needed to visit in practice (for audition, interview) and no waiting periods for immigration) as compared to people from Islamic countries (single entry visas) or Asia (infinite waiting periods). > I have enough perspective to realize that immigration policy is ultimately beholden to the local population. Agreed, as long as the country doesn't pull a, "I've altered the deal, pray I don't alter it further". I have always maintained a "reject them at the gate" policy. Don't welcome them with open arms, and then leave them to drown in the deep end.
- kofejnik 6y ago
  F1 visa is non-immigrant; you are supposed to go back to your country after you're done with your studies or if you drop out. So the author was never promised a path to immigration, in fact, he actually promised to leave the US unless granted a change of status (which is a privilege and cannot be automatically expected, of course)
domador 6y ago
I believe Mr. Duruk is essentially complaining about false advertising from an entity that's commonly been known as trustworthy. I'd say there's enough evidence to entertain that complaint.
loopz 6y ago
That "privilege" was fought for at some point in time. Democracy isn't complicity or passive.
TMWNN 6y ago
>I too am an immigrant to the United States and it's frustrating to read this, and not because the reasons most people might think. I came here as a child and I am reminded every day of the privilege American residency and citizenship affords me. Amen and amen. >Mr. Duruk's thought's are frustrating to read because he assumes his privilege. He assumes he's owed an easy and straightforward journey to citizenship An example of this is the widely shared diagram explaining "How to move to the USA legally"(https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/6rbwfx/how_to_move_to_the_usa_legally_a_simple_guide/ https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/6rbwfx/how_to_m...). The creator (Reason magazine, which I generally sympathize with more often than not)'s intent is to sarcastically mock the US immigration system's vagaries. But as many (not all, but enough) in the Reddit thread point out, why is the US (or any country) supposed to make entry into it for non-citizens "easy"? (This is completely separate from whether doing so might be a good decision for the country from a long-term economic perspective.) >While I do not agree with this administration's immigration policies, I have enough perspective to realize that immigration policy is ultimately beholden to the local population. That is what democracy entails. Indeed. In a democracy, the populace is always "right" in the sense that the populace is entitled to do whatever it votes to do that is compatible with its laws and relevant treaties. (And, of course, said democracy is always free to amend said laws and exit said treaties.) Again, this has nothing to do with whether the decisions the people and their elected representatives make is "right" in the sense of benefiting the country or people in the long term. Even if such a thing were possible to determine objectively, it doesn't matter because the people have spoken, for better or for worse. It's been frustrating to see "democracy" defined too often as "what the people decide, unless it goes against what I and other experts think is correct". It's not supposed to work that way. The recent wave of looting and rioting is going to cause the people, temporarily cowed, to once again speak their mind and remind the world the next chance they get at the ballot box.
- TheCoelacanth 6y ago
  These are not people who simply were not allowed into the country. These are people who went through all the right steps and were admitted to the country and who followed all the conditions of their visas, who are being kicked out simply to score political points.

by zozin 6y ago

neokrish 6y ago

Just posted my thoughts, sharing the same sentiments. This totally resonates with me.

0x8BADF00D 6y ago

Reading your comment and the original post really made me thankful for what I have. It goes to show that you have very little control of things in life. There are countless headwinds that influence the decisions you make. Some are invisible.

screye 6y ago

> He assumes he's owed an easy and straightforward journey to citizenship, that his future as a foreign-student shouldn't be jeopardized in the least by the political whims of the local population, as if the ravaged parts of THIS nation which screamed out and democratically elected a protectionist president do not deserve to be heard at the international's community's expense. I don't think that's it. What the person seems to begrudge is them breaking the implicit deal. No one will ever willingly pay $200k to a university if vastly improved career prospects were not promised at the end of it. Countries are expected to have a cohesive foreign policy across Govts. When the world most 'credible' country starts changing policies based on which side of the bed the president woke up on, it can get quite irritating for those stuck in the midst. > I wouldn't chose another place as my home--and apparently neither would Mr. Duruk Being better than a rapidly Islamizing Turkey under dictatorial rule isn't a huge positive. Also, it might be a coincidence, but it can rub people the wrong way that immigration is significantly easier for predominantly white Europeans (no visa needed to visit in practice (for audition, interview) and no waiting periods for immigration) as compared to people from Islamic countries (single entry visas) or Asia (infinite waiting periods). > I have enough perspective to realize that immigration policy is ultimately beholden to the local population. Agreed, as long as the country doesn't pull a, "I've altered the deal, pray I don't alter it further". I have always maintained a "reject them at the gate" policy. Don't welcome them with open arms, and then leave them to drown in the deep end.

kofejnik 6y ago
F1 visa is non-immigrant; you are supposed to go back to your country after you're done with your studies or if you drop out. So the author was never promised a path to immigration, in fact, he actually promised to leave the US unless granted a change of status (which is a privilege and cannot be automatically expected, of course)

domador 6y ago

I believe Mr. Duruk is essentially complaining about false advertising from an entity that's commonly been known as trustworthy. I'd say there's enough evidence to entertain that complaint.

loopz 6y ago

That "privilege" was fought for at some point in time. Democracy isn't complicity or passive.

TMWNN 6y ago

>I too am an immigrant to the United States and it's frustrating to read this, and not because the reasons most people might think. I came here as a child and I am reminded every day of the privilege American residency and citizenship affords me. Amen and amen. >Mr. Duruk's thought's are frustrating to read because he assumes his privilege. He assumes he's owed an easy and straightforward journey to citizenship An example of this is the widely shared diagram explaining "How to move to the USA legally"(https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/6rbwfx/how_to_move_to_the_usa_legally_a_simple_guide/ https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/6rbwfx/how_to_m...). The creator (Reason magazine, which I generally sympathize with more often than not)'s intent is to sarcastically mock the US immigration system's vagaries. But as many (not all, but enough) in the Reddit thread point out, why is the US (or any country) supposed to make entry into it for non-citizens "easy"? (This is completely separate from whether doing so might be a good decision for the country from a long-term economic perspective.) >While I do not agree with this administration's immigration policies, I have enough perspective to realize that immigration policy is ultimately beholden to the local population. That is what democracy entails. Indeed. In a democracy, the populace is always "right" in the sense that the populace is entitled to do whatever it votes to do that is compatible with its laws and relevant treaties. (And, of course, said democracy is always free to amend said laws and exit said treaties.) Again, this has nothing to do with whether the decisions the people and their elected representatives make is "right" in the sense of benefiting the country or people in the long term. Even if such a thing were possible to determine objectively, it doesn't matter because the people have spoken, for better or for worse. It's been frustrating to see "democracy" defined too often as "what the people decide, unless it goes against what I and other experts think is correct". It's not supposed to work that way. The recent wave of looting and rioting is going to cause the people, temporarily cowed, to once again speak their mind and remind the world the next chance they get at the ballot box.

TheCoelacanth 6y ago
These are not people who simply were not allowed into the country. These are people who went through all the right steps and were admitted to the country and who followed all the conditions of their visas, who are being kicked out simply to score political points.