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Seems like a nice PR piece. Porsche is using 3d printing to drive tooling development to cut new shapes on pistons. Awesome for r&d but 3d printing metallurgy h

Seems like a nice PR piece. Porsche is using 3d printing to drive tooling development to cut new shapes on pistons. Awesome for r&d but 3d printing metallurgy has a long way to go before it’s production ready. > and feature an integrated and closed cooling duct in the piston crown that's apparently unable to be reproduced using traditional manufacturing methods

stanfordkid 6y ago
Surely they are innovating on the printing techniques themselves beyond off the shelf stuff (or having partnerships with the makers of the equipment). If they can get the process reproducible and consistency up, I don't see why it couldn't be productionized
- abeppu 6y ago
  My limited understanding is that metal parts made by additive processes can end up with poorer lifespans than forged or machined parts. You get different layers which melted and cooled at different times, with weird residual stresses. Parts can fail sooner and just be weaker. If your prototype only needs to live long enough for you to iterate on it, that might be great. But it might not be suitable for real world use for an extended period?
  - Swizec 6y ago
    Supercars aren’t exactly known for their reliability. I imagine Porsche would use this on their super and hyper cars first.
  - g8oz 6y ago
    I’ve read that Rolls Royce is going to be using 3D metal printing on their upcoming Advance3 engine. If it’s good enough for those operating conditions then it should be good enough for anything.
  - thrwy_01 6y ago
    Powdered metal camshaft lobes have been in wide use in production vehicles for several decades.
    - culturestate 6y ago
      Powdered metal parts are everywhere today, but it's not really an additive process - you pour a bunch of powder into a mold, compact it, and then bake it. PM parts are also porous and fairly weak (in some dimensions) relative to machined counterparts, so you don't typically see them in critical applications.
      - ip26 6y ago
        Yeah, now that you mention it, camshafts have quite a reputation for fragility. I always wondered how a rod of solid steel could fracture like that.
mc32 6y ago
To add to that, by the time it’s ready for mass production, how important will piston engines be? I suppose if will be gradual replacement by electrics but still it’s not like they would have lots of life in them.
- dpoochieni 6y ago
  Lol I'd say we still have about 50 years to go. Plus Porsche will cater to enthusiasts. I know I will always have at least 1 gas car
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehic... Scroll down to the countries starting to ban fossil fuel vehicles. I think you’re fine for the next 10-15 years, after that I think it’s hazy whether fossil fuel vehicles will be permitted to be used at all if battery electrics take off. My bet is we reach a tipping point and an outright ban around 2035, if not earlier due to refinery unprofitability due to volume declines. I do look forward to Porsche attempting a competitive EV though! @JumpCrisscross: Throttled, can’t reply to your comment. “Progress happens slowly, and then all of a sudden.”
    - dpoochieni 6y ago
      Think it will become a matter of having enough money. Maybe it'll cost 10X more but as with all these kinds of policies and restrictions, $ will still speak. Since most of the bans you point to are about new cars, I can already bet that the price for used combustion engine cars will skyrocket depending on model. Hmmm, makes me wonder how one could play this market
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > we reach a tipping point and an outright ban around 2035 Zero chance of this happening in the U.S., U.K. or Germany. I imagine the Gulf, India and China will similarly retain sport driving cultures. Mass-manufactured ICE vehicles are past their nadir. But mechanical engines will have a long life thereafter.
smaddox 6y ago
SpaceX has been using 3D printed rocket nozzles with graded alloy compositions in production for years.
- DarthGhandi 6y ago
  Rocketlab too, additive metal manufacturing is definitely production ready. There's YouTube channels that get 3d car engine parts printed. This is not just the realm of multinationals.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

stanfordkid 6y ago

Surely they are innovating on the printing techniques themselves beyond off the shelf stuff (or having partnerships with the makers of the equipment). If they can get the process reproducible and consistency up, I don't see why it couldn't be productionized

abeppu 6y ago
My limited understanding is that metal parts made by additive processes can end up with poorer lifespans than forged or machined parts. You get different layers which melted and cooled at different times, with weird residual stresses. Parts can fail sooner and just be weaker. If your prototype only needs to live long enough for you to iterate on it, that might be great. But it might not be suitable for real world use for an extended period?
- Swizec 6y ago
  Supercars aren’t exactly known for their reliability. I imagine Porsche would use this on their super and hyper cars first.
- g8oz 6y ago
  I’ve read that Rolls Royce is going to be using 3D metal printing on their upcoming Advance3 engine. If it’s good enough for those operating conditions then it should be good enough for anything.
- thrwy_01 6y ago
  Powdered metal camshaft lobes have been in wide use in production vehicles for several decades.
  - culturestate 6y ago
    Powdered metal parts are everywhere today, but it's not really an additive process - you pour a bunch of powder into a mold, compact it, and then bake it. PM parts are also porous and fairly weak (in some dimensions) relative to machined counterparts, so you don't typically see them in critical applications.
    - ip26 6y ago
      Yeah, now that you mention it, camshafts have quite a reputation for fragility. I always wondered how a rod of solid steel could fracture like that.

mc32 6y ago

To add to that, by the time it’s ready for mass production, how important will piston engines be? I suppose if will be gradual replacement by electrics but still it’s not like they would have lots of life in them.

dpoochieni 6y ago
Lol I'd say we still have about 50 years to go. Plus Porsche will cater to enthusiasts. I know I will always have at least 1 gas car
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehic... Scroll down to the countries starting to ban fossil fuel vehicles. I think you’re fine for the next 10-15 years, after that I think it’s hazy whether fossil fuel vehicles will be permitted to be used at all if battery electrics take off. My bet is we reach a tipping point and an outright ban around 2035, if not earlier due to refinery unprofitability due to volume declines. I do look forward to Porsche attempting a competitive EV though! @JumpCrisscross: Throttled, can’t reply to your comment. “Progress happens slowly, and then all of a sudden.”
  - dpoochieni 6y ago
    Think it will become a matter of having enough money. Maybe it'll cost 10X more but as with all these kinds of policies and restrictions, $ will still speak. Since most of the bans you point to are about new cars, I can already bet that the price for used combustion engine cars will skyrocket depending on model. Hmmm, makes me wonder how one could play this market
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > we reach a tipping point and an outright ban around 2035 Zero chance of this happening in the U.S., U.K. or Germany. I imagine the Gulf, India and China will similarly retain sport driving cultures. Mass-manufactured ICE vehicles are past their nadir. But mechanical engines will have a long life thereafter.

smaddox 6y ago

SpaceX has been using 3D printed rocket nozzles with graded alloy compositions in production for years.

DarthGhandi 6y ago
Rocketlab too, additive metal manufacturing is definitely production ready. There's YouTube channels that get 3d car engine parts printed. This is not just the realm of multinationals.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]