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That list really irritates me. > - to change a diaper Ok? What if one never intends to have kids. > -plan an invasion For goodness' sake, why is that import

That list really irritates me. > - to change a diaper Ok? What if one never intends to have kids. > -plan an invasion For goodness' sake, why is that important outside of the military? > -butcher a hog Irrelevant to most people. > -conn a ship So? Are we in the navy or maritime service? A gent in Montana has no need of this, > -design a building Design, engineer, or build? > -write a sonnet Popular for schoolchildren. Says little. Interpretation of sonnets says more. > -balance accounts I'll give heinlein that. > -build a wall So? > -set a bone Useful enough, sure. > -comfort the dying Yeah, that's good. > -take orders Still not in the military > -give orders Still not in the military > -cooperate Sure! -act alone Sure! -solve equations What kind of equation? Arithmetic, algebra, calculus, analysis? > -analyze a new problem What kind of analysis? This is extremely specialized. > -pitch manure If manure matters in your life, otherwise: so what > -program a computer Useful to me, but not relevant to most people > -cook a tasty meal Sure. > -fight efficiently Still not in the military. > -die gallantly Baloney. The Great War should have cured him of this dream. "Heinlein really likes the military" is my take away. Most of his vaunted list is deeply irrelevant to outright obnoxious to me. It's like reading a "bet you couldn't solve these problems 1850s kids had to solve" thing. Anchored in the past and a different priority system. Should you be able to provide first aid, cook well, and work with others? Yes. Do reading, riting, and rithmatic? Yeah, sure. That's kind of what the point of the school system is for. Honestly. No one will know everything, and no one should strive to be ignorant, misanthropic, and uncultured. I could size up my life and write a similar list, but it'd only be a reflection of my priorities in life.

rednerrus 6y ago
The point is that we should have the ability to be self-reliant and shouldn’t rely on school or government to set the agenda for what’s important to learn. Make your own list. Step outside the bounds of what your job is and learn some other skills. Build a deck, drift a car, deploy containers in k8s, make jam, grow a garden, fight city hall, etc. The list is irrelevant just make one.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> - to change a diaper > Ok? What if one never intends to have kids. Then...one should still have that skill. I mean, I didn't have kids until my 40s and the only decade of my life where I didn't apply that skill was the first. > -plan an invasion > For goodness' sake, why is that important outside of the military? It's not, but Heinlein—and while some of the list might be more Long-the-character than Heinlein though the broad outline is clearly Heinlein, including at least the outline of the military focus of not the particular examples—(hardly uniquely in US history, one might note—this was a common belief among the founders) viewed military service, including leadership, as something one should be prepared to assume at need (whether on behalf of or against one’s government, as dictated by the need) not a profession for a distinct and isolated caste whose skills the rest of society could afford to neglect, and viewed the contrary view as incompatible with liberty. (I imagine that, had our adulthooda overlapped, as they didn't quite, I'd have been pretty far from Heinlein politically. But on this point, we could agree.) > The Great War should have cured him of this dream. That someone should be prepared to die gallantly at need does not imply that the Great War (or war generally) is particularly the occasion where such death was most likely to be called for. Certainly while Heinlein clearly believed it was possible that that could occur, one could hardly read his body of work without recognizing that he saw that possibility outside of war and, likewise saw much, if not most, death in war as pointless and unnecessary. > Anchored in the past and a different priority system. It may have been written a half century ago by someone whose formative years were a century ago, but I don't see anything particularly dated about it. It may speak to a different set of ideals than you hold, but I don't know why it is surprising or irritating that disagreement on that level exists.

rednerrus 6y ago

The point is that we should have the ability to be self-reliant and shouldn’t rely on school or government to set the agenda for what’s important to learn. Make your own list. Step outside the bounds of what your job is and learn some other skills. Build a deck, drift a car, deploy containers in k8s, make jam, grow a garden, fight city hall, etc. The list is irrelevant just make one.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> - to change a diaper > Ok? What if one never intends to have kids. Then...one should still have that skill. I mean, I didn't have kids until my 40s and the only decade of my life where I didn't apply that skill was the first. > -plan an invasion > For goodness' sake, why is that important outside of the military? It's not, but Heinlein—and while some of the list might be more Long-the-character than Heinlein though the broad outline is clearly Heinlein, including at least the outline of the military focus of not the particular examples—(hardly uniquely in US history, one might note—this was a common belief among the founders) viewed military service, including leadership, as something one should be prepared to assume at need (whether on behalf of or against one’s government, as dictated by the need) not a profession for a distinct and isolated caste whose skills the rest of society could afford to neglect, and viewed the contrary view as incompatible with liberty. (I imagine that, had our adulthooda overlapped, as they didn't quite, I'd have been pretty far from Heinlein politically. But on this point, we could agree.) > The Great War should have cured him of this dream. That someone should be prepared to die gallantly at need does not imply that the Great War (or war generally) is particularly the occasion where such death was most likely to be called for. Certainly while Heinlein clearly believed it was possible that that could occur, one could hardly read his body of work without recognizing that he saw that possibility outside of war and, likewise saw much, if not most, death in war as pointless and unnecessary. > Anchored in the past and a different priority system. It may have been written a half century ago by someone whose formative years were a century ago, but I don't see anything particularly dated about it. It may speak to a different set of ideals than you hold, but I don't know why it is surprising or irritating that disagreement on that level exists.