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> Police Department signed an agreement with Amazon's home surveillance equipment company, Ring, in 2019 to gain special access to the company's Neighbors app

> Police Department signed an agreement with Amazon's home surveillance equipment company, Ring, in 2019 to gain special access to the company's Neighbors app this is the most scary part.

Krasnol 6y ago
The most scary part about it is that people willingly buy and install that stuff in their homes.
annoyingnoob 6y ago
1984 While the programmes could no longer be seen or heard, the screen still functioned as a surveillance device, as after Winston is taken into the Ministry of Love, the audio of his meeting with O'Brien with the telescreen "off" is played back to Winston.
- lamby 6y ago
  You may be thinking of a different chapter, but O'Brien's apartment wasn't in the Ministry, it was in a different "quarter of the town where they lived" where "the whole atmosphere of the huge block of flats, the richness and spaciousness of everything, the unfamiliar smells of good food and good tobacco, the silent and incredibly rapid lifts sliding up and down, the white-jacketed servants hurrying to and fro—everything was intimidating".
  - annoyingnoob 6y ago
    Its actually a quote from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen Maybe I didn't grab enough context.
peacelilly 6y ago
We really need these things to be Closed Circuit by law. Want the data? Get a warrant and seize the device physically. Centralized databases of surveillance information needs to be outlawed criminally.
- dahfizz 6y ago
  Isn't the whole reason people buy those is because they back up to the cloud and they can view the feed from anywhere? CC security cameras are nothing new
- manigandham 6y ago
  You can buy closed circuit cameras for the past 40 years. People buy Ring to avoid the in-home infrastructure.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Hence, by law. A legal mandate avoids the race-to-the-bottom trend.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      What race to the bottom? It’s a choice. People like having choices.
      - dredmorbius 6y ago
        When "choice" effectively limits societal options or generates massive externalities and/or long-term unpredictable impacts, all parties upon whom the "choice" impacts are not given voice, or choice. Often commonweal is a better guiding light than "choice". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom Sophie Zawistowska was offered a choice. Did her utility benefit by it? https://youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9bht5H2p4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9bht5H2p4
        manigandham 6y ago
        It's the user's choice to use a cloud-hosted security system. They can weigh the trade-offs and risks for themselves, same as with any other system. Whether that data is accessible by law enforcement is a completely separate issue. A proper solution would be limiting this access and requiring consent and transparency, not removing infrastructure options because you think you know better than everyone else about what's best for them.
throwawayway9 6y ago
Gives any rational human being the shivers.
Timpy 6y ago
Is it clear what this "special access" is? After touring the landing page of Amazon's Neighbors app it's not clear to me how this affects privacy. It could be as benign as a message board moderator position. Don't mistake me for saying that this is okay, I think this is dystopic, but I fear it will be hard to convince people with a Ring device that this is dangerous.

> Police Department signed an agreement with Amazon's home surveillance equipment company, Ring, in 2019 to gain special access to the company's Neighbors app this is the most scary part.

Krasnol 6y ago

The most scary part about it is that people willingly buy and install that stuff in their homes.

annoyingnoob 6y ago

1984 While the programmes could no longer be seen or heard, the screen still functioned as a surveillance device, as after Winston is taken into the Ministry of Love, the audio of his meeting with O'Brien with the telescreen "off" is played back to Winston.

lamby 6y ago
You may be thinking of a different chapter, but O'Brien's apartment wasn't in the Ministry, it was in a different "quarter of the town where they lived" where "the whole atmosphere of the huge block of flats, the richness and spaciousness of everything, the unfamiliar smells of good food and good tobacco, the silent and incredibly rapid lifts sliding up and down, the white-jacketed servants hurrying to and fro—everything was intimidating".
- annoyingnoob 6y ago
  Its actually a quote from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen Maybe I didn't grab enough context.

peacelilly 6y ago

We really need these things to be Closed Circuit by law. Want the data? Get a warrant and seize the device physically. Centralized databases of surveillance information needs to be outlawed criminally.

dahfizz 6y ago
Isn't the whole reason people buy those is because they back up to the cloud and they can view the feed from anywhere? CC security cameras are nothing new
manigandham 6y ago
You can buy closed circuit cameras for the past 40 years. People buy Ring to avoid the in-home infrastructure.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Hence, by law. A legal mandate avoids the race-to-the-bottom trend.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    What race to the bottom? It’s a choice. People like having choices.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      When "choice" effectively limits societal options or generates massive externalities and/or long-term unpredictable impacts, all parties upon whom the "choice" impacts are not given voice, or choice. Often commonweal is a better guiding light than "choice". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom Sophie Zawistowska was offered a choice. Did her utility benefit by it? https://youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9bht5H2p4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9bht5H2p4
      - manigandham 6y ago
        It's the user's choice to use a cloud-hosted security system. They can weigh the trade-offs and risks for themselves, same as with any other system. Whether that data is accessible by law enforcement is a completely separate issue. A proper solution would be limiting this access and requiring consent and transparency, not removing infrastructure options because you think you know better than everyone else about what's best for them.

throwawayway9 6y ago

Gives any rational human being the shivers.

Timpy 6y ago

Is it clear what this "special access" is? After touring the landing page of Amazon's Neighbors app it's not clear to me how this affects privacy. It could be as benign as a message board moderator position. Don't mistake me for saying that this is okay, I think this is dystopic, but I fear it will be hard to convince people with a Ring device that this is dangerous.