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Yuri Bezmenov was also a nobody who instantly became a darling of the American far-right. The interview you're referring to is by the Alex Jones-like conspiracy

Yuri Bezmenov was also a nobody who instantly became a darling of the American far-right. The interview you're referring to is by the Alex Jones-like conspiracy nut G. Edward Griffin. Bezmenov became "famous" by reinforcing every far-right fear of "communist indoctrination" in American society. I would love to know how you think this has manifested in American society. The interview you're talking about is from 1984, and he's warning how these effects will start manifesting in the next 10-15-20 years. He, in fact, defected in early 1970. Let's be generous and say the changes would come after roughly 25 years. Where is the sweeping ideological and policy changes that in the mid-90s made the US so much more subversive and/or communist? I see little to no evidence of this. In fact, the Bezmenov interview is carted out by all people trying to explain a change in the political landscape. Current-day liberals (in the American sense) use the (context-less) interview to claim it's indicative of current Russian measures. At the same time Republicans use it to prove that there's a "both sides", and that issues like trans rights and the internment camps are simply subversive claims by a foreign power. Both of these narratives try to show that the "us" isn't inherently flawed, but that we're deliberately pushed in a "subversive" direction by an evil, all-powerful force. It's a comforting truth, in a way. You maintain the positive self-image while gaining a common enemy. Sure, you're mad at the other side for falling for the lie. But ultimately the common enemy is even worse. Edit: Changed the second paragraph to reflect the year he defected

ravenstine 6y ago
> Yuri Bezmenov was also a nobody who instantly became a darling of the American far-right. The interview you're referring to is by the Alex Jones-like conspiracy nut G. Edward Griffin. Bezmenov became "famous" by reinforcing every far-right fear of "communist indoctrination" in American society. You're engaging in weak thinking known as "guilt by association". Whatever merit the rest of your statements have, it's totally irrelevant whether the "far-right" likes Bezmenov or if the person who interviewed him was a "conspiracy theorist". It's weak because it says nothing about Bezmenov himself, and at worst it is an attempt to shut down any counter argument. (association to the "far-right" and "conspiracy theorist" are common tactics to shut down arguments)
- throwanem 6y ago
  Okay, then. What do you have in the way of independent support for Bezmenov's claims? Surely, in the decades since the collapse of the government whose secret plans he claims to describe, some sort of verifiable corroboration must have become available.
deleted 6y ago
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nwienert 6y ago
There’s a ton of evidence that our education system, universities, popular media and more has been building up an ideology based on a postmodern/poststructuralist theory that has culminated in what you see today as woke/cancel culture, Antifa, etc. You may not agree with these theories, I certainly am less of a conspiracy theorist about them than some (to me they seem guided by good intention more than cabals of boogeymen), but the case has been made by many especially as of late, and yes, were clear by the mid-90s. To cite a more popular recent academic to bring it up, Jordan Peterson talks about this extensively including citing trends going back to the French philosophers in the 50s. So I’m not even standing by the evidence as being true, but to say you “see none” would be more of a personal oversight than the historical truth, as many modern and well followed people do.
- throwanem 6y ago
  Yeah, I mean, we're a decade at this point past even Moldbug's historiography, and it's not as if he contributed any ideas that were both new and worth having; mostly he just reformulated and to some extent synthesized some very old ideas in a fashion that might find a 21st-century audience, which it more or less did. Stating the existence of such historiographies doesn't do anything to make the case for their veracity. People here in 2020 have better reasons for doubting them than simply not knowing they exist.
  - nwienert 6y ago
    You’re doing a lot of hand waving. That’s not convincing. An idea that’s been around consistently, supported by a group of people for a long period of time and continually being cited with many concrete examples needs refutation more than “people have better reasons to doubt them”. Again, I’m just replying to the ridiculous original hand wave of “I don’t see it at all”. Sorry, you may disagree. But you’d have to address years and years of pretty rigorous thought that’s been put into these problems. You won’t convince anyone with appeals to authority or whatever fallacy it is to wave away things based on nothing but “2020” (thought terminating cliche, I guess).
    - 6y ago

ravenstine 6y ago

> Yuri Bezmenov was also a nobody who instantly became a darling of the American far-right. The interview you're referring to is by the Alex Jones-like conspiracy nut G. Edward Griffin. Bezmenov became "famous" by reinforcing every far-right fear of "communist indoctrination" in American society. You're engaging in weak thinking known as "guilt by association". Whatever merit the rest of your statements have, it's totally irrelevant whether the "far-right" likes Bezmenov or if the person who interviewed him was a "conspiracy theorist". It's weak because it says nothing about Bezmenov himself, and at worst it is an attempt to shut down any counter argument. (association to the "far-right" and "conspiracy theorist" are common tactics to shut down arguments)

throwanem 6y ago
Okay, then. What do you have in the way of independent support for Bezmenov's claims? Surely, in the decades since the collapse of the government whose secret plans he claims to describe, some sort of verifiable corroboration must have become available.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

nwienert 6y ago

There’s a ton of evidence that our education system, universities, popular media and more has been building up an ideology based on a postmodern/poststructuralist theory that has culminated in what you see today as woke/cancel culture, Antifa, etc. You may not agree with these theories, I certainly am less of a conspiracy theorist about them than some (to me they seem guided by good intention more than cabals of boogeymen), but the case has been made by many especially as of late, and yes, were clear by the mid-90s. To cite a more popular recent academic to bring it up, Jordan Peterson talks about this extensively including citing trends going back to the French philosophers in the 50s. So I’m not even standing by the evidence as being true, but to say you “see none” would be more of a personal oversight than the historical truth, as many modern and well followed people do.

throwanem 6y ago
Yeah, I mean, we're a decade at this point past even Moldbug's historiography, and it's not as if he contributed any ideas that were both new and worth having; mostly he just reformulated and to some extent synthesized some very old ideas in a fashion that might find a 21st-century audience, which it more or less did. Stating the existence of such historiographies doesn't do anything to make the case for their veracity. People here in 2020 have better reasons for doubting them than simply not knowing they exist.
- nwienert 6y ago
  You’re doing a lot of hand waving. That’s not convincing. An idea that’s been around consistently, supported by a group of people for a long period of time and continually being cited with many concrete examples needs refutation more than “people have better reasons to doubt them”. Again, I’m just replying to the ridiculous original hand wave of “I don’t see it at all”. Sorry, you may disagree. But you’d have to address years and years of pretty rigorous thought that’s been put into these problems. You won’t convince anyone with appeals to authority or whatever fallacy it is to wave away things based on nothing but “2020” (thought terminating cliche, I guess).
  - 6y ago