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"Classroom attendance removes children from the everyday world of Western culture and plunges them into an environment far more primitive, magical, and deadly s

• watwut 6y ago
  As someone who absolutely want work and thus needs the kids somewhere during the day, the whole "school is just daycare" is crap. My kids were at home and I worked during covid and the hell they learn more now that they are back in school. And while I still am working from home and they were actually quite cool during day, the learning effects of school are massive and massively appreciated - by both kids and me. It would be easier and cheaper to have them in non school daycare. We don't do that, because primary reason for schools is not actually daycares.
  • tharne 6y ago
    You must have much better schools where you live compared to me.
    • Loughla 6y ago
      Yes, the quality of education varies substantially from district to district, or even building to building, and is highly reliant on geography and local income in the United States.
  • guidoism 6y ago
    It’s true only because you and your kids weren’t prepared and didn’t have time to think through the situation. Trying to replicate school at home is a recipe for disaster. Instead, think about what an education means to you and what you want your kids to be when they are 18 or so. Then design your years and days around that. Nobody can fault you for the result of the pandemic homeschooling experiment. Nobody was prepared. And you were trying to work from home at the same time. This last semester has pretty much just been a pause for most people.
    • the_other 6y ago
      My gut feeling is that this falls apart if you try to work in the current Western work culture and rent or pay a mortgage in the current land ownership culture (especially in a major city). The kind, pace and quality of work you would do whilst simultaneously homeschooling doesn’t mesh with the current work culture. I’m fairly sure that if you could successfully homeschool whilst working, you’d have to work/produce more on local problems; have a more blended work-life balance (mixing work and non-work more freely); deadlines likely would have to be longer; you’d probably want to priorities craft and quality over mass distribution. I find these ideas appealing, but I think you need to rip the innards out of capitalism to achieve it.
      • tmaly 6y ago
        I think if we had enough effort put into it like we mobilized with the Manhattan project, we could create some amazing supplemental online material. We have incredible technology and a good understanding of psychology. Why could we not apply some Hollywood approach to creating amazing lessons that are engaging and fun to watch?
        • watwut 6y ago
          Our undestanding of psychology is not all that great. But what we know is that kids are social emotional animals. The relationship with teacher and other kids matter a lot. Interactions matter a lot. Own activity matter a lot. There are fun and engaging lessons to watch, if you know where to look. The above is missing.
        • vharuck 6y ago
          I hate to be that guy, but who would pay for it? The barebones and dull textbooks we have now came about because their publishers chase government money. I'm even less hopeful there's a profit from selling to individuals or homeschool groups.
          • ksdale 6y ago
            The U.S. spends upwards of half a trillion dollars per year on K-12 education (an average of $215,000 per 30 students). That doesn't include college or what parents spend out of pocket on private schools, homeschooling, tutoring, etc. I think there's plenty of money to be made by someone with a great idea and high quality execution.
• tharne 6y ago
  > Today, grade school serves the primary purpose as a daycare for the kids so both parents can work. The current pandemic has exposed this fact undeniably and you can see a lot of educators are unhappy about that. A number of friends in the legal profession have told me that's why private elementary schools have been much quicker to reduce or refund tuition. Colleges can make the argument they're providing "education" regardless of physical location, while most legal experts will argue that a private elementary school cannot continue to demand full tuition when a significant portion of their value proposition is childcare.
  • watwut 6y ago
    Online education does much less for small children then for adults. The difference between in person and online for small kids is massive. And in online version, parent does a lot of the education part. The elementary school kid can care about itself, even happily if allowed tablet. But won't learn even with zoom without parent.
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    • guidoism 6y ago
      I don’t think that anyone will be able to learn on Zoom. It sounds horrible.
      • tmaly 6y ago
        You can learn, but it is just not the same. My daughter is doing her piano lessons over zoom now. If she was not able to read sheet music, it would not work.
• guidoism 6y ago
  Families these days can still do it but they don’t because they are led to believe in paying for convenience and get into a cycle that turns everything in their life into something the market provides. The insidious thing is that once you get into debt it is very difficult to break this cycle.
  • tharne 6y ago
    This is very true. I know families where one parent stays home and others where both parents work. What surprised me is that there is no correlation between household income and whether or not one parent stays home (at least not in my admittedly small sample).
  • pantaloony 6y ago
    It’s hard to do unless one parent is comfortable with, capable of, and willing to spend years facilitating homeschooling (property near good schools is expensive). Then it’s still incredibly expensive in lost wages (and greater income insecurity/risk, which is even worse in the US due to how healthcare and retirement works, plus it probably ties the other partner to secure corporate jobs for healthcare if nothing else, and so limits upside available from riskier moves) compared with other options, unless you have several kids and the stay-at-home parent had fairly low earning potential.
    • guidoism 6y ago
      I have to disagree with you on several points: 1. Schools are ranked by test scores mostly, which is 99% dependent on the education and income of the parents. Even then housing near schools with excellent test scores isn't expensive except in the most expensive cities in the US. 2. I totally agree about the healthcare system though it has become a lot better since ACA. Healthcare is still disgustingly expensive but at least you can still get it and if you have a normal middle income in a family with a couple kids then healthcare is essentially free. 3. Requiring two incomes is much riskier than just one. Of course living from one income and saving the other is the best, but most people don't do that, and it's harder to do if you are both working since it costs so much money to work. Not working is cheaper. Take a look at Elizabeth Warren’s book, The Two-Income Trap. It explains this paradox much better than I could.
• TYPE_FASTER 6y ago
  > Today, grade school serves the primary purpose as a daycare for the kids so both parents can work. I have not found this to be the case. I'm not a professional educator. I'm not going to do as good a job at educating my kids as an experienced teacher. Looking at what our kids are learning, I'm impressed by the curriculum, which at least in our district has kept up with changes in day to day life and professional expectations.
  • ksdale 6y ago
    This is oft-repeated, but in my opinion, the question isn't whether you are a better educator than a professional educator, the question is can you teach your child better than a professional educator can teach 30? The answer may still be no, but I don't think it's nearly as clear cut.
  • tmaly 6y ago
    My wife and I supplement our kids education at home. It is my opinion that kids are capable of a lot more. The school is catering to the lowest common denominator.
    • TYPE_FASTER 6y ago
      I totally agree that kids are capable of more than adults think they are most of the time. Districts are incentivized to increase standardized test scores, from what I have seen this has forced some level of change, ranging from bringing in additional educators at the class level to work with groups at different levels, to using web applications that will assess and create individualized curriculum.
      • tmaly 6y ago
        Has the No Child Left Behind Act and the push for teaching to the test really benefited kids?
  • cousin_it 6y ago
    You'll almost certainly do a better job than {an experienced teacher} + {an environment full of kids who don't want to learn}.
• foolinaround 6y ago
  > so both parents can work today, many families find themselves in a position where they 'have to' work. It could be 'lifestyle inflation' but it could also be the deeper specialization - and certain jobs needing that, but these skills erode before the worker is able to adapt to the next wave.